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The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

leidenmedievalistsblog.nl

21–30 of 246 posts

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#21
I’m actually beginning some informal research on 17th century Europe for a small game right now. There are some village life and village builder aspects.

It’s the beginning of the “modern” period and just after the renaissance. What is life like for the local business owner? Who would they be? What extent is it still feudal serfdom in during ? It’s an interesting time with massive social, scientific, and religious change, it’s been really fun to read about so far

Edit: if anybody has books or articles to recommend, I’d love to hear about them

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#22

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

I believe this is coming in Manor Lords.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#24

The city builder has its origins far back in the 1990s in the combination of the strategy genre and the management genre, leading to games such as Sim City (1989), Caesar (1992) and Age of Empires (1997). Utopia for Intellivision/Aquarius came out in 1982. It was one of my favorite games growing up. I highly recommend it if you're into these kinds of games, or retro gaming. I guess I was retro gaming when I played it…

Interesting. We actually had an Intellivision back in the day, but not this game. I think I would have loved it.

I still play this game against my brother-in-law when I visit for the holidays. He's gotten really good, and I haven't played it consistently since 1984.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#25

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

Before we leave has this:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1073910/Before_We_Leave/

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#26

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

You would need to model the “roads” becoming an impassable hazard (thick muddy mess) to wheeled vehicles and horses during heavy rain.

Even ancient people threw gravel down (or logs) to help address this problem. But that’s a heck of a lot of work.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#27
post #9

This just in: video game discovered that doesn't completely adhere to . More at 11.

This is a case of HN's clickbait prevention hurting the title. The original title is "Why Medieval city builder video games are historically inaccurate" and considers some of the details rarely represented.

However to stop titles like "Why are 9/10 moms using XYZ?" that are badly disguised ads, HN strips opening questions from titles.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#28

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

Foundation does this. No road building at all. Paths are created organically by activity. In addition, the player never builds houses either. The townspeople pick where they want their house to go.

There is road building in Banished, but the townspeople will only use them if it’s an optimal path. They’re not the least bit shy about ignoring the roads if they can get to their destination via a shortcut. Since the roads do give a substantial movement bonus, the most effective roads are the ones which trace out the organic movement of the citizens.

I like both systems, but prefer the one in Banished. It’s rewarding to build a heavily used road system based on observing patterns.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#29
City builders, such as Sim City or even City Skylines are all inaccurate to various degrees. I find it more "honest" when Tropico 6 makes fun of the concept entirely: with your hackers stealing the White House from the US Government.

Strangely enough, I find Tropico to be a more believable setting.

* Citizen simulation: Citizens need to travel between different areas. Miners need to enter the mines, but when they get tired, they need to travel home to rest. Every now and then, they must travel to Church to fulfil their personal religious needs (religious citizens need more church than non-religious). Etc. etc. for all the personal needs of citizens (food, housing, religion, entertainment). Citizens also grow up: adults give birth to children, children go to school (or not: if you don't have schools they'll grow up uneducated), 20 years later they enter the workforce as either "uneducated", "high school" educated, or "college educated". Higher education levels can perform more jobs (ex: Petro-chemical engineer), while uneducated are forced into the lowest wage jobs (farming or mining).

You do need farmers and miners however. So you kind of need to balance the number of high and low educated fellows in your island.

* The economy: Tropico simulates a small island country in a world of "Superpowers". Tropico 6 has 4 ages and therefore different sets of superpowers. Early ages is "The Crown" (the sole superpower), your hypothetical king who sent you to colonize the island. Then comes "Axis" and "Allies" as the two superpowers. A few decades later you get USSR vs USA. Finally the superpowers split into the modern age (Europe, USA, Russia, China).

* You're a small fish in the world. Your entire economy consists of satisfying the superpowers with goods. More advanced goods means more money from a superpower. Too much relations with one superpower (ex: USA) will piss off rival superpowers (ex: USSR in Cold War era).

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This leads to some very believable situations:

* The city center naturally flows from the harbor: your sole connection to the superpowers of the world. While there's some trade / economy within Tropico (ex: various food items, meat, entertainment, and maybe tourism), the vast majority of your wealth will be from trade with the superpowers you're aligned with.

* Rich vs Poor citizens -- Poor citizens work the mines. Educated citizens can be university professors, pharmacists, or engineers (who can turn raw petroleum into plastic and sell for even more money to the superpowers). Rich people want to live in nice houses and drive cars. Poor citizens can't even afford to ride the bus and walk everywhere (meaning you need to plan poor communities very differently than rich communities).

* "Ghettos" -- If you have a valuable resource in a far-off corner of your island (such as Coal, Gold, Bauxite, Oil, or Uranium), you naturally have to build a mine over there. But your workers also need to live there (otherwise they'll spend too much time traveling between the city center and the mine, never actually working). Your compromise is to build a low-quality housing area... a "Ghetto", with just barely enough needs to survive. That way, your workers are encouraged to stay on that corner of the island without spending too much of their free time walking back and forth to the higher quality town center. Raw materials (mines) don't have as much value as higher-grades of products, so its not worth the investment improving that corner of the island.

Besides, if you upgraded all of the housing in the "Ghetto" area, those workers couldn't afford those houses. I guess you can enact the "free housing" edict, but that pisses of the USA-superpower (though it makes you closer to the USSR...). Free-housing also means free: you no longer get income from homes but instead lose money on every house. So its harder to make money.

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Ceasar / Pharaoh also did the rich/poor thing better IMO (the richest citizens leave the workforce!! You may suddenly find yourself in a worker shortage if you "upgrade" your citizens too far). A big issue with Sim City / City Skylines is that the entire interaction of rich / poor is completely neglected.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#30
I just want Banished, but with better performance and with some basic AoE elements of an RTS. Fend off raiders, create military units, deal with pillaging. I remember the guy at CrystalRock talking about it saying the way the AI determines what to do is the primary reason it's a little slow as populations get larger since they dynamically change the items they get and where they go on the fly.

Songs of Syx however seems like the real deal. I haven't bought it but it looks very promising in terms of what Banished couldn't entirely deliver.

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