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Launching Rust Cloud Native

nickgerace.dev

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Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#21

Post by notsureaboutpg »

querez wrote: post #17
staticassertion wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, this seems fairly straightforward. It's an announcement for a group that is forming and why that group is forming. It's even mentioned that the launch is largely symbolic, as the work is already open source, but that this is a sort of "call to arms". Seems pretty easy to understand.

I disagree. A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language. However, this post grinds my gears in all the wrong ways. The proper way to do what that guy set out to do would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list (or some Rust forum/social channel) and collectively build up a group. But announcing a group before the group's actually been formed is putting the cart b…

>The proper way to do what that guy set out to do would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list (or some Rust forum/social channel) and collectively build up a group. But announcing a group before the group's actually been formed is putting the cart before the horse.

I don't see why it's a big deal. Now it's on the frontpage of HN. That's kind of like announcing on a big developer mailing list / forum / social channel. So what's actually different here?

>I probably am being way to harsh on people who actually are trying to do something good for the community.

At least you recognize this might be a bit much.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#22

Post by querez »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #20
querez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language. However, this post grinds my gears in all the wrong ways. The proper way to do what that guy set out to do would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list (or some Rust forum/social channel) and collectively build up a group. But announcing a group before the group's actually been formed is putting the cart b…

Seems like you are old fashioned and outdated.

Just old enough to have seen how weird and political official announcements can get, and how important it is to nail communication if you're in the limelight.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#23

Post by [deleted] »

querez wrote: post #6

This is a very confusing announcement of..... what exactly? A github repo hosting the blog that the announcement was posted on! There isn't anything of substance here, as far as I can tell. While the whole thing "looks" official and has a very official name, there is nothing of substance there. Some of the text is incoherent, telling us that the author learned some Rust as a break from university (good for him!). Som…

[deleted]

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#25

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

pjmlp wrote: post #19
darksaints wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally understand the annoyance with cult-like behavior in the tech industry...and even as a fan of Rust, I can't help but see how obnoxious the fandom can be. But I would much rather that cults form around ideas like memory safety in low-level languages than things like Elon Musk or Apple...which is literally everywhere on HN. Almost any postitive headline about either makes the front page in like 10 seconds, and…

Many keep trying since 1950's, unfortunely it took a free beer OS to spoil it, and now it is a quixotic battle of multiple generations to come, to bring it back into course.

Free OSs didn't spoil it, since their competition was also written in memory unsafe languages

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#26

Post by nickgerace »

querez wrote: post #6

This is a very confusing announcement of..... what exactly? A github repo hosting the blog that the announcement was posted on! There isn't anything of substance here, as far as I can tell. While the whole thing "looks" official and has a very official name, there is nothing of substance there. Some of the text is incoherent, telling us that the author learned some Rust as a break from university (good for him!). Som…

This is fair comment!

Thought I would add some clarity here: many comments here are correct in that the announcement is largely symbolic. The substance is minimal because this is a "call to arms" more than anything. Since there's been some gridlock in creating a central place for Rust Cloud Native _anything_, I mainly just wanted to start _something_.

I can also see how the exchange of "I" and "we" was confusing. I talked to several folks about how to start this, so I did not want to claim sole ownership of ideas.

This was created entirely with volunteer time, and would ideally not have its course determined from a BDFL (me, in this case). If people want a Discord, a Zoom meetups, events hosted, etc., we will do that. I do not want to burn out by creating a bunch of low quality community locations prematurely.

These intentions could have be articulated more clearly, and I may edit the announcement post to do so. Thank you.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#27

Post by nickgerace »

Nullabillity wrote: post #16
shred45 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What confuses me is that I know for a fact that several of those projects have or will be joining the CNCF, so I’m not sure they are in need of a governing body.

As a co-maintainer of kube-rs, this is the first I've heard of this working group. I don't have anything against them or the idea per se, but I'd have appreciated a heads up before being listed in a way that could be read as us endorsing them.

I'd be happy to re-architect the website to make it clear that site exists to endorse projects and not the other way around. The latter is definitely not the intent, so if it reads that way, we should change it. Please feel free to file an issue: https://github.com/rust-cloud-native/rust-cloud-native.githu...

EDIT: I have added a section explicitly stating the projects showcased are not officially affiliated unless given explicit consent from owners/maintainers.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#28

Post by nickgerace »

tux3 wrote: post #8
querez wrote: post #6

This is a very confusing announcement of..... what exactly? A github repo hosting the blog that the announcement was posted on! There isn't anything of substance here, as far as I can tell. While the whole thing "looks" official and has a very official name, there is nothing of substance there. Some of the text is incoherent, telling us that the author learned some Rust as a break from university (good for him!). Som…

It seems they're just planting a flagpole, since no one else had done it yet, and calling for people who are interested to regroup under that label. Why not. Sometimes it really just takes a name and a place for people who have common goals to work together.

I've addressed this in more detail in response to the top comment, but this is exactly correct.

I'll admit, I could have expressed the intent more clearly, but there's been gridlock here, so I created the organization with the intent of doing _something_.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#29

Post by staticassertion »

querez wrote: post #17
staticassertion wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, this seems fairly straightforward. It's an announcement for a group that is forming and why that group is forming. It's even mentioned that the launch is largely symbolic, as the work is already open source, but that this is a sort of "call to arms". Seems pretty easy to understand.

I disagree. A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language. However, this post grinds my gears in all the wrong ways. The proper way to do what that guy set out to do would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list (or some Rust forum/social channel) and collectively build up a group. But announcing a group before the group's actually been formed is putting the cart b…

> A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language.

I think that's really fair feedback FWIW.

> would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list

I don't think this is a thing in Rust, but there is a user forum/ subreddit.

> I'm sure they'll learn as they go along, and I probably am being way to harsh on people who actually are trying to do something good for the community.

Yeah I think that's all I'm saying. Maybe this is the wrong venue, but I don't think your criticism was necessary or constructive in totality - some of it is, some of it isn't. I'm sure that much of this feedback will be incorporated, based on what I'm seeing from the author.

Re: Launching Rust Cloud Native

#30

Post by nickgerace »

staticassertion wrote: post #29
querez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language. However, this post grinds my gears in all the wrong ways. The proper way to do what that guy set out to do would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list (or some Rust forum/social channel) and collectively build up a group. But announcing a group before the group's actually been formed is putting the cart b…

> A typical announcement says WHO does WHAT and HOW, maybe even WHY in succinct, clear language. I think that's really fair feedback FWIW. > would've been to write an RFC to some mailing list I don't think this is a thing in Rust, but there is a user forum/ subreddit. > I'm sure they'll learn as they go along, and I probably am being way to harsh on people who actually are trying to do something good for the communit…

I appreciate the discussion here.

The reason why the GitHub organization was created BEFORE anything else was because of a tweet. I originally tweeted that I created the organization, and wanted to see if people were interested in using it (regardless of ownership). It unexpectedly blew up, and with encouragement from replies/DMs, I decided to add least plant a flag.

> WHO

This needs to be better clarified, I agree. This is a small section on this: https://github.com/rust-cloud-native/core#owners-and-members

> WHAT

This could be clearer as well. Perhaps, this section should indicate that we want to be a blank canvas or sandbox for issue/discussion filers to determine course: https://github.com/rust-cloud-native/core#what-are-the-goals...

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