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Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

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Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#21

Post by ggregoire »

ferdowsi wrote: post #4

Congratulations to the Vue team, this is definitely a big win for them. Reading through the RFC is really interesting. They specifically call out the dependency on Facebook as effectively being React's Single Point of Failure, citing their negative experiences with HHVM. And for all of the love that people give React's big shifts (like hooks), the RFC specifically counts this against them, given that best practices h…

Although I understand what you saying about big shifts and kinda shared your opinion, specially about hooks, I started a new project from scratch last week and decided to give hooks a try (and, for reference, I've been using React on a daily basis for 5 years).

Oh boy I was wrong.

Hooks are way more easier and intuitive than what I thought. It makes code so much more readable and easier to reason about. Especially when before you had to wrap your components into x number of HOCs to inject the props your component needed, risking props collision, making it really hard to debug and use with TypeScript, and eventually making it a nightmare to understand and maintain your component. I'm not surprised that every React library added a hook API to its core.

At the end of the day it makes me more productive, so I guess that big shift was also a big win.

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#22

Post by dzonga »

react is api stable, but not api stable if you know what I mean. with react, the ground is always shifting underneath you, which something like wikimedia probably don't have the resources to keep up with. even, as someone who has done react professionally, I can advise any small nimble teams, out there react ain't for ya. it don't love ya. however, for the big enterprisey apps, yeah react is good.

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#23

Post by wayneftw »

ferdowsi wrote: post #4

Congratulations to the Vue team, this is definitely a big win for them. Reading through the RFC is really interesting. They specifically call out the dependency on Facebook as effectively being React's Single Point of Failure, citing their negative experiences with HHVM. And for all of the love that people give React's big shifts (like hooks), the RFC specifically counts this against them, given that best practices h…

Facebook is a steward not a dependency. React has been free and open source and largely driven by the needs of the community. Right down to that time when the community cried out about Facebook's odd license clause regarding patents. And they changed it.

But I can't imagine modern technology being where it is without big shifts. Perhaps that is not good for very long term projects. We'll see how Vue fairs in the long run if they never make any big shifts, I suppose.

Then again, none of the big shifts in React broke anything permanently, did they? I could be wrong about this, I haven't been paying attention since the very beginning…

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#24

Post by flowerlad »

ggregoire wrote: post #21
ferdowsi wrote: post #4

Congratulations to the Vue team, this is definitely a big win for them. Reading through the RFC is really interesting. They specifically call out the dependency on Facebook as effectively being React's Single Point of Failure, citing their negative experiences with HHVM. And for all of the love that people give React's big shifts (like hooks), the RFC specifically counts this against them, given that best practices h…

Although I understand what you saying about big shifts and kinda shared your opinion, specially about hooks, I started a new project from scratch last week and decided to give hooks a try (and, for reference, I've been using React on a daily basis for 5 years). Oh boy I was wrong. Hooks are way more easier and intuitive than what I thought. It makes code so much more readable and easier to reason about. Especially wh…

> you had to wrap your components into x number of HOCs to inject the props your component needed, risking props collision, making it really hard to debug...

What kind of application are you developing? Do you have complex UI? Or just lots and lots of pages where you reuse components a lot?

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#25

Post by Aeolun »

seph-reed wrote: post #18
Spartan-S63 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, React is very particular at how you present your view logic. For state management, though, it has very few opinions and that freedom can be paralyzing. Do you use Redux? Do you just use built-in component state and props? Do you use the Hooks API? React solves one slice of problems in front-end development, but has few opinions outside of the view layer.

I stopped using it a while ago (2-3 years). I had central state management, and a few other bells and whistles. I was the "go to" guy for when React didn't want to do something. Most of my wrestling came in the form of: - recycling html-elements - "tweening" state. a friggin nightmare to have inbetween states - performant animation stuff - stateless node-to-node communication for stuff that would have not fit well in…

React does not seem like a good fit for doing any of these things. Aside from keyboard navigation, which works just fine as far as I’ve seen.

I dunno, every time I see someone hating React they’ve been kind of stuck in doing things the jQuery way, and their components become this horrible frankenstein of modifying HTML both through React and directly.

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#27

Post by russellbeattie »

Huh. They're still deciding on whether to use Vue 2 or Vue 3... To me that's a definitive sign that Vue chasing after React's insane hooks system was a bad idea. I hope they figure out how to heal the rift before it's too late before we get another Python 2/3 situation.

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#29

Post by seph-reed »

Aeolun wrote: post #25
seph-reed wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using it a while ago (2-3 years). I had central state management, and a few other bells and whistles. I was the "go to" guy for when React didn't want to do something. Most of my wrestling came in the form of: - recycling html-elements - "tweening" state. a friggin nightmare to have inbetween states - performant animation stuff - stateless node-to-node communication for stuff that would have not fit well in…

React does not seem like a good fit for doing any of these things. Aside from keyboard navigation, which works just fine as far as I’ve seen. I dunno, every time I see someone hating React they’ve been kind of stuck in doing things the jQuery way, and their components become this horrible frankenstein of modifying HTML both through React and directly.

Keyboard navigations as in up/left/right/down jumps around somewhat haphazardly placed items. Not tab/shift-tab accessibility.

And you are right that React is not a good fit for these things. That's why I say it's very limiting.

Also, for what it's worth, you might be mistaking "the jquery way" with "the vanilla way." As in:

- working with HTMLElements

- vs working with a superset (tsx) of a superset (ts) of javascript meant to look like html (sometimes), that creates js components that then create html that is then diffed with last html and finally applied to the appropriate innerHTML (and don't forget about all the hooks!).

Re: Vue.js is Wikimedia Foundation's future JavaScript framework

#30

Post by ng12 »

dzonga wrote: post #22

react is api stable, but not api stable if you know what I mean. with react, the ground is always shifting underneath you, which something like wikimedia probably don't have the resources to keep up with. even, as someone who has done react professionally, I can advise any small nimble teams, out there react ain't for ya. it don't love ya. however, for the big enterprisey apps, yeah react is good.

I cannot relate to this experience at all. Can you specify examples of what you're talking about?
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