On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words • Hacker News Board

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#21

Post by arthurcolle » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #10

retrac wrote: post #3

Some of them -- like peccable - are probably truly dead. But others, at least to me, seem obvious when pointed out. If I ran into "scrutable" or "wieldly" in a sensible context, I'm not sure I would realize they were archaic. A personal favourite "tractable" is still current but already seems to be fading away. Far more things remain intractable. I have sometimes written a word, and then stared at it, and been unable…

“Tractable” is quite common in computer science, often to refer to problems which can be solved in polynomial time, as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobham%27s_thesis

Yeah I was confused by this inclusion for sure

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#22

Post by duskwuff » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

dogorman wrote: post #4

This article would be much better if it had some data and evidence. A quick check on google ngrams reveals that the phrase 'well kempt' surged in popularity after 2000, relative to the two previous centuries. 'Unkempt' is still far more popular, but 'kempt' has by no means disappeared.

On the other hand: "kempt" primarily survives as the fixed phrase "well kempt", and hasn't retained its original meaning as the past tense of "to comb".

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#23

Post by ourmandave » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

There's always been six - Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy, Dopey, and Doc.

Oh, you said antonyms. I thought you said CantRememberyms.

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#24

Post by handrous » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #16

retrac wrote: post #3

Some of them -- like peccable - are probably truly dead. But others, at least to me, seem obvious when pointed out. If I ran into "scrutable" or "wieldly" in a sensible context, I'm not sure I would realize they were archaic. A personal favourite "tractable" is still current but already seems to be fading away. Far more things remain intractable. I have sometimes written a word, and then stared at it, and been unable…

Kempt is also still used fairly regularly (even though my iPad seems to think it is not a real word)… usually used as ‘well kempt’, like a “well kempt yard”

It's common for archaisms to survive in fixed phrases, idioms, and clichés.

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 11:37 PM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #15

Gruntled started out referring to pigs, in particular the little grunting noises they made when they were content. Later when it was applied to people it came to mean discontent, because people don't generally grumble when they are happy. So the modern return to 'content' is actually sympatico with its original meaning

[deleted]

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#26

Post by dmurray » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 12:35 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #16

retrac wrote: post #3

Some of them -- like peccable - are probably truly dead. But others, at least to me, seem obvious when pointed out. If I ran into "scrutable" or "wieldly" in a sensible context, I'm not sure I would realize they were archaic. A personal favourite "tractable" is still current but already seems to be fading away. Far more things remain intractable. I have sometimes written a word, and then stared at it, and been unable…

Kempt is also still used fairly regularly (even though my iPad seems to think it is not a real word)… usually used as ‘well kempt’, like a “well kempt yard”

I see this as "well kept", sometimes hyphenated. Google n-grams suggests "well kempt" drifted into popularity since 2000 or so, with insignificant use before that.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Well+kept%2C+w...

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#27

Post by anotherevan » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

Gormless is one of my favourite words in this category. You cannot be "gormfull".

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#28

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

The author, Arika Okrent, wrote a book called "In the Land of Invented Languages", which is a hoot.

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#29

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #16

retrac wrote: post #3

Some of them -- like peccable - are probably truly dead. But others, at least to me, seem obvious when pointed out. If I ran into "scrutable" or "wieldly" in a sensible context, I'm not sure I would realize they were archaic. A personal favourite "tractable" is still current but already seems to be fading away. Far more things remain intractable. I have sometimes written a word, and then stared at it, and been unable…

Kempt is also still used fairly regularly (even though my iPad seems to think it is not a real word)… usually used as ‘well kempt’, like a “well kempt yard”

[deleted]

Re: On the disappearing antonyms of “grumpy” words

#30

Post by perl4ever » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #26

cortesoft wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kempt is also still used fairly regularly (even though my iPad seems to think it is not a real word)… usually used as ‘well kempt’, like a “well kempt yard”

I see this as "well kept", sometimes hyphenated. Google n-grams suggests "well kempt" drifted into popularity since 2000 or so, with insignificant use before that. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Well+kept%2C+w...

I was wondering what kind of usage "well kempt" had before 2000, and one of the examples in Google books is William Safire writing about writing, where he mentions "wellkempt" in Ulysses and says that in the 16th century, "kempt" divided into "ill kempt" and "well kempt".

It goes on to say that "a thousand years ago, couth meant 'known, familiar' and uncouth meant 'unknown, foreign, strange'...[c]outh faded out but was back-formed and born again".