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Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

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Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#21

Post by refenestrator »

jxramos wrote: post #16

Can someone substantiate this idea that it's improbable for a virus to surmount these two evolutionary obstacles highlighted below? I'll copy the quote for the idea I've seen circulating, the bold part is the idea I'd like to hear challenged and would like to learn more about what its foundation is predicated upon. For ultimately, in order to create a human pandemic, an animal virus has to accomplish **two very diffi…

Sars and bird flu both did it in that part of the world quite recently. It's not like the phenomenon is unheard of.

Maybe it's unlikely but when you also have a billion people in third world conditions.. it's not that unlikely after all.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#23

Post by PicassoCTs »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdYDL_RK--w&t=6s

He knows what he is talking about though. And he knows its the end of his field and career if he yields.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#24

Post by brodouevencode »

ianai wrote: post #19
brodouevencode wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty cynical about this. The CCP hasn't been very forthcoming so far and I don't suspect that to change.

But what is the alternative?

Short of some sort of global sanctioning I'm not so sure there is one. Hopefully the data that comes out will be useful and honest.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#25

Post by twobitshifter »

ianai wrote: post #2

Call to action: “”” We welcome calls for scientifically rigorous investigations.10, 11 To accomplish this, we encourage WHO and scientific partners across the world to expeditiously move to continue and further extend their initial investigation with experts in China and the Chinese Government. WHO's report from March, 2021,12 must be considered the beginning rather than the end of an inquiry, and we strongly support…

They must be dreaming if they think the CCP will help a fair investigation. If Ecohealth wants to investigate Covid on Norwegian Salmon they might get support, but since Chinese state media now denies that Covid even began in China, they won’t investigate the lab leak, that much is certain. There are good scientists in China who would want to investigate this, but the government will not allow it, and from what we know they are actively working to erase the evidence needed for the scientific process.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#26

Post by brodouevencode »

refenestrator wrote: post #18
brodouevencode wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty cynical about this. The CCP hasn't been very forthcoming so far and I don't suspect that to change.

Why limit your cynicism? The US has plenty of motivation as well.

I assume you're referring to the grants issued by the US to China to work on GoF research?

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#28

Post by Zenst »

refenestrator wrote: post #21
jxramos wrote: post #16

Can someone substantiate this idea that it's improbable for a virus to surmount these two evolutionary obstacles highlighted below? I'll copy the quote for the idea I've seen circulating, the bold part is the idea I'd like to hear challenged and would like to learn more about what its foundation is predicated upon. For ultimately, in order to create a human pandemic, an animal virus has to accomplish **two very diffi…

Sars and bird flu both did it in that part of the world quite recently. It's not like the phenomenon is unheard of. Maybe it's unlikely but when you also have a billion people in third world conditions.. it's not that unlikely after all.

I like to think of such unlikely things in the context of winning the lottery, that I find gives a perspective based upon however large the odds are - somebody does win in the end.

I didn't see any numbers in the article to give some weight to any probability word usage.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#29

Post by hereforphone »

Awhile back there was an article on the front page of HN which seemed to support the lab leak hypothesis. This was before that hypothesis gained traction. I checked back shortly thereafter and it was gone. I went through the history (scrolled through pages) and couldn't find it.

Maybe it was a BS / questionable article. I don't know. But it seems we were eager to squash that line of thinking early on, whereas now it's at least debatable.

This is why I'm suspicious of moderation.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#30

Post by refenestrator »

brodouevencode wrote: post #26
refenestrator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why limit your cynicism? The US has plenty of motivation as well.

I assume you're referring to the grants issued by the US to China to work on GoF research?

No, I'm referring to generic geopolitical rivalry plus cover for mismanagement of the crisis domestically.

If we can make it all China's fault, that's a win for us. Facts, evidence or lack thereof aren't material compared to interests and arguments.

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