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Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

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Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#21

Post by ahmedalsudani »

2sk21 wrote: post #9

“We’ve completed the science, what’s left to do is scale up from lab-scale prototypes to grid-scale power plants." I can't even count the number of lab-stage announcements that I have seen in HN. This will be of interest only when they can get it to scale

So what? Things that are still in the exploratory phase are also interesting.

People are free to upvote whatever content they find valuable.

(And the headline + post title are not misleading clickbait, which is often the case with such stories.)

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#22

Post by epistasis »

2sk21 wrote: post #9

“We’ve completed the science, what’s left to do is scale up from lab-scale prototypes to grid-scale power plants." I can't even count the number of lab-stage announcements that I have seen in HN. This will be of interest only when they can get it to scale

I think the difference that makes me optimistic about Form is that their executive team is extremely experienced with bringing products to market. This is no guarantee, and the publicity at this moment in time might be more about their recent round than anything else, but I have a much better feeling than a random new tech from an academic lab.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#23

Post by jeffbee »

Faaak wrote: post #4

I'd love to be able to buy "cheap" batteries that are big, large, heavy, but cheap (per kWh). Sadly there are many startups but none are selling as of now. The only one I found ("Salt battery") was more expensive than Lithium but with less cycles...

The big, large, heavy, cheap battery you are looking for is the lead-acid battery. The market for them is still larger than the global lithium-ion market, and they're quite suitable for stationary applications. Many off-the-grid houses use banks of lead-acid batteries.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#24

Post by Tempest1981 »

philipkglass wrote: post #10

Wiley said that a 300MW “pilot” project for Minnesota-based Great River Energy will be commissioned in 2023. That project, announced in May last year, was originally due to be a 1MW/150MWh demonstration plant capable of outputting 1MW for 150 hours straight. If the energy had gone up 300x from the originally announced pilot project the same way the power did, this would be a huge storage project boasting 45,000 MWh o…

To address slow charging, could you have an array of them, some charging and some discharging? But you would need maybe 7x more then, so they would need to be 7x cheaper to compete. (Not quite sure how the math works out to account for charge rates and weather.)

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#26

Post by andrew_ »

jeffbee wrote: post #23
Faaak wrote: post #4

I'd love to be able to buy "cheap" batteries that are big, large, heavy, but cheap (per kWh). Sadly there are many startups but none are selling as of now. The only one I found ("Salt battery") was more expensive than Lithium but with less cycles...

The big, large, heavy, cheap battery you are looking for is the lead-acid battery. The market for them is still larger than the global lithium-ion market, and they're quite suitable for stationary applications. Many off-the-grid houses use banks of lead-acid batteries.

LiFePo are starting to make a splash (pun intended) in the marine sector now that costs have started to fall, but lead acid still rules the roost. I have 4 AGMs and one Lithium in my vessel.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#27

Post by epistasis »

My biggest concern is round trip efficiency, as other iron chemistries are only around 50%, which severely limits arbitrage opportunities:

https://www.alexhsain.org/blog/ironair

This could be super useful for all sorts of backup situations, from homes to data centers to hospitals.

And once they are installed generally, they can be combined together as a virtual power plant and start partially paying for themselves.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#28

Post by m3kw9 »

2sk21 wrote: post #9

“We’ve completed the science, what’s left to do is scale up from lab-scale prototypes to grid-scale power plants." I can't even count the number of lab-stage announcements that I have seen in HN. This will be of interest only when they can get it to scale

Scaling industrial products is the equivalent to passing phase 3 drug trials. Everyone can do a lot in small scale(mouse models), but it’s a new game scaling it.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#29

Post by 7952 »

2sk21 wrote: post #9

“We’ve completed the science, what’s left to do is scale up from lab-scale prototypes to grid-scale power plants." I can't even count the number of lab-stage announcements that I have seen in HN. This will be of interest only when they can get it to scale

And yet despite the challenges batteries do get better. There is an economic situation where customers and vendors win from improvements in technology and that can spur innovation. That makes me optimistic.

Re: Form Energy reveals the chemistry of its long-duration battery

#30

Post by philipkglass »

tiddelypom wrote: post #25
mackman wrote: post #13

More information in this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9814873/Scie...

Also this one: https://www.wsj.com/articles/startup-claims-breakthrough-in-... (I work at Form fyi)

Am I correct that the company has improved the achievable C-rate since the May 2020 announcement of a 1MW/150MWh demonstration project?

Are there any publicly available documents about the chemistry, or how the product compares with e.g. the ESS Inc. iron flow battery?

https://essinc.com/iron-flow-chemistry/

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