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On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

b10c.me

21–30 of 65 posts

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#21
post #11

Is there any hard fork scheduled in the near future for Bitcoin, with more important upgrades?

The real artistry is to deploy updates without doing a hard fork. Taproot is one of these and it is very, very important.

It's not artistry, it's overly complex hackery to satiate some weird technological obsession.

Even with a soft fork, everyone still needs to update their nodes to maintain consensus. BIP100 signalling would have fixed everything and avoided so much drama.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#22
post #18

The miner can include some non-standard transactions makes Bitcoin not so perfect, and once that non-standard transactions included in a block, other miners won't validate its script at all, that make it worse.

once that non-standard transactions included in a block, other miners won't validate its script at all

I don't think this is correct. Miners (are supposed to) validate all transactions in all blocks.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#23
post #4

Ah, a soft fork focused on SegWit transactions. Every time I try and follow along with the latest in Bitcoin I just don't get that excited. I think that's part of the point, though. "Hard money" and all.

Hard money doesn't exhibit 15000% annualized inflation in a one-month period. That Weimar Republic behavior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad about that - it's made me tons of money on the short side. I'm just saying, it's bad money.

>Hard money doesn't exhibit 15000% annualized inflation in a one-month period

I'm curious, what's your definition of "hard money"? It's clear that your idea of "hard money" is very different than the parent's.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ~50% drop in purchasing power over a one-month period (from 65K to 29K) is an annualized inflation rate of ~15000%.

That’s not inflation. Inflation as the name suggests is the expansion of monetary supply.

That definition of inflation is old and discredited. Austrian economics is roughly speaking tinfoil hat economics. The modern definition is a change in purchasing power of a unit of currency, not solely of its supply.

The reason is simple: if you have the treasury mint a $1T coin and give it to me, then I throw it in a vault, and do not spend it then prices do not change. As such, the Austrian model is obviously incomplete as it does not take into account what happens to that supply.

You can see this play out in the macro. Since 1980 the M2 supply has increased 12X but prices are about 3X higher.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard money doesn't exhibit 15000% annualized inflation in a one-month period. That Weimar Republic behavior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad about that - it's made me tons of money on the short side. I'm just saying, it's bad money.

I'm looking forward to third party assets being tradable on the Bitcoin network again. My contribution to the gradient of behaviors on that network was one where the Bitcoin asset was only used to cover transaction fees for the actual money being traded. The whole "merchant adoption" thing was always a squirrel to me. When merchants will accept stable value assets more readily, or use those stable value assets for se…

> I'm looking forward to third party assets being tradable on the Bitcoin network again.

Again? Did some sort of protocol fork break colored coins or the omni network?

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine curiosity: why would you trade third-party assets on the Bitcoin network when you could do it infinitely more efficiently on any of the competing chains? It's by far the least efficient blockchain ergo the least efficient way to trade third-party assets. [edit] Direct fees are lower than they used to be, and the energy cost is about now up to about $100-120 per transaction. While that's being socialized acros…

> While that's being socialized across block reward for now, when that ends, it will have to be born directly by customers That's true, total transaction revenue will need to go up. That doesn't mean per-transaction revenue needs to go up though. Put another way, transaction volume needs to scale before inflation gets too low.

transaction volume needs to scale before inflation gets too low

Good thing they decided to never scale transaction volume.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not inflation. Inflation as the name suggests is the expansion of monetary supply.

That definition of inflation is old and discredited. Austrian economics is roughly speaking tinfoil hat economics. The modern definition is a change in purchasing power of a unit of currency, not solely of its supply. The reason is simple: if you have the treasury mint a $1T coin and give it to me, then I throw it in a vault, and do not spend it then prices do not change. As such, the Austrian model is obviously inco…

Your thought experiment is assuming that $1T is permanently locked "in a vault", therefore it is not actually part of the monetary supply, since it can't be spent without violating your assumption.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're being a little silly by comparing a short-term market gyration to "annualized inflation". The Yen is down 38 basis points against the dollar today. Nobody would describe that as "exhibiting 135% annualized inflation".

True, but there's a big difference between dropping 38 basis points and losing 57% of its purchasing power. [edit] more importantly, the yen may have dropped 38 basis points against the dollar, however that doesn't necessarily represent a drop in domestic purchasing power at all. Just foreign purchasing power. This change makes imports into Japan more expensive and exports of Japanese products denominated in dollars…

Doesn't get more apples and oranges than comparing fiat currencies with hard money

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#29
post #11

Is there any hard fork scheduled in the near future for Bitcoin, with more important upgrades?

The real artistry is to deploy updates without doing a hard fork. Taproot is one of these and it is very, very important.

The real artistry is convincing people that the complexity cost of soft forks are worth it.

Re: On anyone-can-spend Pay-to-Taproot outputs before activation

#30
post #21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real artistry is to deploy updates without doing a hard fork. Taproot is one of these and it is very, very important.

It's not artistry, it's overly complex hackery to satiate some weird technological obsession. Even with a soft fork, everyone still needs to update their nodes to maintain consensus. BIP100 signalling would have fixed everything and avoided so much drama.

> It's not artistry, it's overly complex hackery to satiate some weird technological obsession.

Also known as... backwards compatibility.

>Even with a soft fork, everyone still needs to update their nodes to maintain consensus

Not really. If you decide to not upgrade your node you're not going to get kicked off the network. Your node won't be enforcing the new rules (which is bad), but you're probably not going to lose money due to herd immunity and/or game theory. Specifically, your client will blindly accept taproot transactions (without checking for them) if they make it into a block. An evil miner could possibly use this to send you fraudulent transfers, however:

1. you need to somehow amass the hashpower necessary to generate such a block. this is non-trivial given the network difficulty

2. the block would be considered invalid by the rest of the network, so you'll be forfeiting the regular block reward of ~6.25 BTC

3. other miners won't build on top of this block, so it will take forever to get to 6 confirms

4. in addition to the above, your fork will get overtaken by the legitimate chain and will be ignored

5. if it turns out that your victim did upgrade his wallet software, you just spent a bunch of resources for nothing.

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