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When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

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Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#21

Post by TheParkShark »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#22

Post by JumpCrisscross »

smt88 wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

> Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.

This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.)

Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York again because those who refuse to get vaccinated will die? Would there be the political will to?

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#23

Post by [deleted] »

TheParkShark wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

[deleted]

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross »

TheParkShark wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion?

Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens.

Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to continue being fine.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#25

Post by nradov »

kcplate wrote: post #19
underseacables wrote: post #10

There’s also just plain distrust of government and media pushing something. Our trust in government and media is so low that when they say do something, most rational people are immediately suspicious.

Exactly this. There is an unbelievable irony in the fact that the current administration is on a intense PR push to get unvaccinated Americans to trust the vaccines and get vaccinated when they specifically communicated during their (Biden and Harris) campaigns last year their distrust regarding the vaccine due to its association with Trump, speed of development, and experimental nature. This is what happens when peo…

In 2020 California and several other states said that they would conduct independent safety reviews of the vaccines because they didn't trust the Trump administration. When state government officials make irresponsible statements like that it's not surprising that some people are hesitant.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#26

Post by nradov »

briefcomment wrote: post #2

Why is there no widespread antibody testing to see if we've reached herd immunity? The push to vaccinate is only necessary if we're not there yet. I recall a study from a couple months ago claiming several times more people caught the virus than was generally thought.

The CDC estimates that about 114M Americans have been infected but only a quarter of those were officially counted as cases.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#27

Post by postoak »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22
smt88 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

> Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.) Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York…

Although I think covid vaccine hesitancy is dumb at this point (yet don't think you can punish hesitant people) - Why should only those groups be hesitant? Anyone who can read history can see that happened even if it didn't affect their relatives. The government isn't known for being very effective or trustworthy lately, why should people think their incompetence/malice should be limited to those groups? Plenty of people of all races were attacked by the police last year during peaceful protests. Biden went on to lump protestors with anarchists as well as called doubt on Trump-led vaccines.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#28

Post by seized »

TheParkShark wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

While obesity is a problem and the solutions heavily involve the person changing their life, it is not comparable to vaccines.

Fixing obesity involves education (not everyone knows why McDonalds is junk, or that too much of anything can be bad, meaning portion control), skills training/learning (cooking healthy food can be a big leap for someone who only microwaves a frozen meal), local environment (there are places with poor selection of fresh vegetables), lifestyle stuff beyond food (stress from working two jobs leads to eating badly, drinking, etc), and socioeconomic changes (not everyone can afford all of the above easily). That doesn't even involve things like getting you kids on board, fitness, etc.

And with all of that in place, significant weight loss is a long term effort spamming years for some people.

Getting a vaccine involves rolling up a sleeve then sitting for a bit in case of reactions. And maybe making an appointment.

Equating the two grossly overstates how hard it can be to deal with obesity vs getting a shot.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#29

Post by ceilingcorner »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

It is terrifying that this is a serious opinion upvoted by many people.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#30

Post by gdulli »

smt88 wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

> millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic.

But you could say the same about most things that most people do every day.

Nobody needs to become an amateur biologist.

But everyone needs to have the self awareness to step back and realize that vaccines are one of a hundred things they do that they don't have the expertise to build or explain, and that the only reason they're hesitant about this one is because they've been drawn into a culture war about it.

Whereas the rest of life that's equally unfathomable, we do it without controversy because nobody's found the value in making us pawns over it.

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