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More on Vaccine Side Effects

blogs.sciencemag.org

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Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#21

Post by beiller »

nimih wrote: post #19
beiller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

> But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resistant? Maybe, but it's not a big deal.[1] [1] https://www.pnas.org/content/115/51/12878

Awesome thanks for the paper!

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#23

Post by omgwtfbbq »

briantakita wrote: post #2

Now that the vaccine injuries can no longer be hidden from the public, the industry seeks to capture the discussion to retain their influence on public opinion. The core of the argument is risk assessment based on the statistics that they provided. The problem is, if they were lying about existence vaccine injuries, what is to stop them from lying about the statistics? A better solution to restore a proper feedback m…

>If they commit genocide, they are executed.

You think vaccine manufacturers are going to commit genocide and you want to execute them? What fascist dreamland do you live in? Come back to reality

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#24

Post by clairity »

phtrivier wrote: post #3

I would have noded and approved this article 24 hours ago. Now vaccination is about to be made de-facto mandatory in France (with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in.) ; and I know that I'm going to be a bit less receptive, because of the tension between "this is sane science" and "this is a terrible bet on the future from a politician that got a lot o…

> "And I hate being forced into a _team_."

you're not being forced onto a team. no one is making you identify with a party or group. you're doing that to yourself by buckling to whatever social pressures you perceive around you. you can simply stop buckling and still hold the same beliefs.

and science is not a team. that's politization talking. science is a process for generating a working body of knowledge, a body that asymtoticallly approaches truth but is not (yet) truth. for any given subject (medicine, for instance), it can even be very far from the truth and still be the best we have (so far).

this is exactly the perniciousness of partisanship in a nutshell. forget parties and sides. reach your own independent conclusions first (and continuously), and act on that, rather than succumbing to identitarianism.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#27

Post by rjsw »

phtrivier wrote: post #3

I would have noded and approved this article 24 hours ago. Now vaccination is about to be made de-facto mandatory in France (with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in.) ; and I know that I'm going to be a bit less receptive, because of the tension between "this is sane science" and "this is a terrible bet on the future from a politician that got a lot o…

Couldn't you just set fire to a few tyres after getting vaccinated ?

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#29

Post by anonymouswacker »

beiller wrote: post #16
xeromal wrote: post #11

I like the process the author walked through. I'll paste one of the paragraphs. "So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only other choice) is absolutely worse. And to reiterate a point that’s been made many times, the faster we can vaccinate people, the lower the chances we have of encountering a new var…

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Given that covid is entirely treatable in 99.9+% of cases (read the studies & physician anecdotes who have been treating it effectively since last March), it makes more sense to me to take the path of being proactive, healthy, and unvaccinated until it reaches Approved status. To each their own.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#30

Post by brobdingnagians »

beiller wrote: post #16
xeromal wrote: post #11

I like the process the author walked through. I'll paste one of the paragraphs. "So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only other choice) is absolutely worse. And to reiterate a point that’s been made many times, the faster we can vaccinate people, the lower the chances we have of encountering a new var…

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Quanta Magazine [1] has an interesting article about how vaccines can help pathogens evolve to be more virulent, a particularly interesting part:

> After the parasites circulated through 21 rounds of vaccinated mice, Barclay and Read studied them and compared them to malaria parasites that had circulated through 21 rounds of unvaccinated mice. The strains from the vaccinated mice, they found, had grown far more virulent, in that they replicated faster and killed more red blood cells. At the end of 21 rounds of infection, these more quickly growing, deadly parasites were the only ones left.

As a sibling mentioned, it doesn't appear to be as bad as bacterial resistance, or at least different in a nuanced way.

From what I've read there is a difference between vaccinating _before_ a pandemic and vaccinating _during_ a pandemic. With the safer preference being to vaccinate before a pandemic to avoid immunological escape.

[1] https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathog...

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