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Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

buildyourownlisp.com

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Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#21

Post by subtra3t »

desine wrote: post #11

I've had this in my bookmarks for awhile, intending to work through it. I think I can probably even do it solo without the guide, at this point. After years of programming, and learning (or at least playing with) many languages, I've come to a philosophical conclusion of sorts: C and Lisp should be the two languages all students start with, in my opinion. Probably SICP style Scheme education, and classic simple C89.…

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Lisp is a perfect example of an underestimated programming language.

It really is astonishing that most programmers (whom I know) consider Lisp to be this weird language with too many brackets.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#23

Post by astrange »

guenthert wrote: post #18
astrange wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Lisp programmer I've ever met is like this. I don't know why, but it's probably Erik Naggum's fault. They used to be called "Lisp weenies" and now would be called "abusers". (The Clojure and Racket people are supposedly nice.)

I've seen Erik Naggum's name mentioned in this context before, but years ago I looked through a bunch of his contribution on comp.lang.lisp and couldn't see anything justifying this reputation. His articles rather looked quite eloquent and thought-through. Could you provide an example?

Alas it's been a long time and I don't remember enough anymore. I just remember what I used to remember.

There's some here (http://xahlee.info/Netiquette_dir/death_of_a_troll.html) and classic discussion can be found at (https://wiki.c2.com/?SocialProblemsOfLisp). The rest of the odd pattern of every Lisp programmer I've ever met being an asshole is mostly lost to IRC history, but I guess RMS is another example.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#24

Post by capableweb »

subtra3t wrote: post #21
desine wrote: post #11

I've had this in my bookmarks for awhile, intending to work through it. I think I can probably even do it solo without the guide, at this point. After years of programming, and learning (or at least playing with) many languages, I've come to a philosophical conclusion of sorts: C and Lisp should be the two languages all students start with, in my opinion. Probably SICP style Scheme education, and classic simple C89.…

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Lisp is a perfect example of an underestimated programming language. It really is astonishing that most programmers (whom I know) consider Lisp to be this weird language with too many brackets.

> It really is astonishing that most programmers (whom I know) consider Lisp to be this weird language with too many brackets.

Programmers (humans really) are really good at having knee-jerk reactions to things and then sticking with the same opinion for some reason. As engineers, you would think we'd be better at looking at things objectively, but somehow discussions/thinking around programming languages tend to be a very emotional thing for many, so they stick with their first impressions.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#26

Post by wudangmonk »

moonchild wrote: post #9

Don't Build Your Own Lisp provides some harsh—and IMO totally justified—criticism: https://gist.github.com/no-defun-allowed/7e3e238c959e27d4919...

Jesus just reading the first paragraph tells me everything I need to know about this person, what a whiny little bitch.

Lisp and C are my favorite languages and most of the people I know who like one tend to like the other. I was surprised by this guy who praises lisp but hates C with such a passion.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#28

Post by thealig »

astrange wrote: post #23
guenthert wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen Erik Naggum's name mentioned in this context before, but years ago I looked through a bunch of his contribution on comp.lang.lisp and couldn't see anything justifying this reputation. His articles rather looked quite eloquent and thought-through. Could you provide an example?

Alas it's been a long time and I don't remember enough anymore. I just remember what I used to remember. There's some here ( http://xahlee.info/Netiquette_dir/death_of_a_troll.html ) and classic discussion can be found at ( https://wiki.c2.com/?SocialProblemsOfLisp ). The rest of the odd pattern of every Lisp programmer I've ever met being an asshole is mostly lost to IRC history, but I guess RMS is another example.

I've accessed that wiki.c2 for various discussions about programming before. However, I get confused with the format, specially here where it seems like a thread full of comments (no mention of usernames) there. (I like the relative minimalism and simplicity of the discourse though)

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#29

Post by andi999 »

subtra3t wrote: post #21
desine wrote: post #11

I've had this in my bookmarks for awhile, intending to work through it. I think I can probably even do it solo without the guide, at this point. After years of programming, and learning (or at least playing with) many languages, I've come to a philosophical conclusion of sorts: C and Lisp should be the two languages all students start with, in my opinion. Probably SICP style Scheme education, and classic simple C89.…

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Lisp is a perfect example of an underestimated programming language. It really is astonishing that most programmers (whom I know) consider Lisp to be this weird language with too many brackets.

The real problem with lisp programs is each of them has its own DSL (the macros) so you have to learn one language per program. (I think that's the reason also why the library ecosystem is lacking)

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#30

Post by teataster »

I worked through this book and I think is a fine way to get your feet wet with C.

When I learn a new language, I like learning something else in the way, because language learning tends to be samey once you have gone through a couple. This book was right up my alley, cause you get a sense of language design and the very basics of C.

After reading the book I managed to write some cli programs in C, modifying someone else's code.

The main caveat about the book: It Is an introduction in both it's topics. I know the bare minimum of C and I could not design a language. Yes, the lisp you build... Well I would not use for anything.

But is well written and it has exercises, and I believe exercises is how you learn.

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