Why can't FOSS projects get structural support from governments, the way science is funded?
Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
21–30 of 45 posts
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#22I really love haskell, but I cant understand why everything has to be about raical diversity.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#23I really love haskell, but I cant understand why everything has to be about raical diversity.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that everything has to be about racial diversity? I look at the front page of HN, and very few submissions are about racial diversity. Even in this very article (which is a tiny slice of the discussion on HN) I see very little about racial diversity. In what sense did you mean everything has to be about racial diversity?
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that everything has to be about racial diversity? I look at the front page of HN, and very few submissions are about racial diversity. Even in this very article (which is a tiny slice of the discussion on HN) I see very little about racial diversity. In what sense did you mean everything has to be about racial diversity?
Because it's a programming language we're talking about, not a political party.
That said, it wasn't the point of the article. It's fast becoming the point of this comment thread, though, which is unfortunate.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#25Why can't FOSS projects get structural support from governments, the way science is funded?
Science is funded by money from projects. You write a project proposal and apply for funding. Isn't ghc funded by money from Glasgow University or something like that?
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that everything has to be about racial diversity? I look at the front page of HN, and very few submissions are about racial diversity. Even in this very article (which is a tiny slice of the discussion on HN) I see very little about racial diversity. In what sense did you mean everything has to be about racial diversity?
Because it's a programming language we're talking about, not a political party.
I would very much like for you to explain to me how everything you read is about racial diversity, when so little of what I read seems to be.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that everything has to be about racial diversity? I look at the front page of HN, and very few submissions are about racial diversity. Even in this very article (which is a tiny slice of the discussion on HN) I see very little about racial diversity. In what sense did you mean everything has to be about racial diversity?
Because it's a programming language we're talking about, not a political party.
Categorically wrong. This is a programming language community that we're talking about. Haskell hasn't dropped out of thin air. It's the output of a mostly-voluntary community effort. To strengthen the community by making it open to people who have different backgrounds is to strengthen the language.
The real question is why do you only see racial diversity as a problem.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#28I really love haskell, but I cant understand why everything has to be about raical diversity.
Thanks for the question. I'm the author of the article, and I can talk about why I included that paragraph. It's not because everything has to be about racial diversity. Rather, it's because I was already writing about some kinds of diversity, and when I reflected on people I know in the Haskell community, I realized that we've got some pretty interesting characters, and that this is due to communities like Tidal Cyc…
It seems to me that according to present-day American norms, including a remark such as the one that you did is simply considered good form; you show that even if you are not actively working on the great political causes that are being so eloquently argued to be of existential importance by their protagonists every day, you are certainly aware of them, support the good guys and ready to do your part for their cause if it you are in a situation in which you can contribute. Meanwhile, for those who adhere to a framework in which the prescription for making sure historical instances of racism don't repeat is to banish race as a category from human thinking and discourse as far as possible, the very mention of it in a context where there seemed to be no external reason to is gauche in a similar way to if you suddenly started talking about sexual prowess (taking care to insert a parenthetical remark about what you believe about your own). It doesn't seem to me like your explanation of the "why" here is particularly helpful to cross that gap of expectations, either; it only really makes sense if the reader is already primed to assume that describing people as "interesting characters" and unusual people must at least suggest something about race and gender, but from the other side's perspective this is not any less gauche, especially as it might be taken to suggest that what makes those characters "interesting" to you is just a matter of those characteristics.
Even worse, if the culturally remote reader's degree of familiarity with modern US norms is not zero, the one blurb they likely have in mind is something like "the US has a self-admitted racism problem". In that case, a remark such as the one you made might not just register as introducing a topic that is unsuitable for polite conversation, but actually as betraying attitudes that are opposite to what you wished to communicate - imagine if for instance a speaker of the German police, talking about something mundane such as their strategies for fighting pickpockets in Frankfurt, injected a line lamenting the small number of Jews in the force. Indeed, if my read of US society is correct, antisemitism is one context in which the other (older?) version of antiracism norms still survives in it. To get a rough model of how a given post or statement would sound to the cultural outsider, then, you could try to imagine your post with everything mentioning race replaced with analogous remarks along the "Jewish or not Jewish?" axis.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Science is funded by money from projects. You write a project proposal and apply for funding. Isn't ghc funded by money from Glasgow University or something like that?
Exactly - and the amount of effort this consumes is immense. You end up with grant-writing and paper-publishing institutions where the actual advance of knowledge is squeezed between the two.
Re: Why I Support the Haskell Foundation
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it's a programming language we're talking about, not a political party.
> Because it's a programming language we're talking about, not a political party. Categorically wrong. This is a programming language community that we're talking about. Haskell hasn't dropped out of thin air. It's the output of a mostly-voluntary community effort. To strengthen the community by making it open to people who have different backgrounds is to strengthen the language. The real question is why do you only…