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Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

nytimes.com

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#21
post #12

I made a spread sheet comparing renting to buying a few years ago. The premise was that I wanted to compare my investment in my home vs. paying less to rent and investing the difference in the stock market. The assumptions were something like a 3.5% mortgage rate (30y) and 4% appreciation on my home, vs. a 7% appreciation in the market. What I found is that on a time horizon of ~7 years, it absolutely makes sense to…

Did you include closing fees? Those can take a big chunk out of the appreciation when you sell and buy, and could make a difference of not breaking even for an additional year or two.

Yes, fees were included for selling the house, but I did not include capitol gains taxes in the investment calculation.

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#22

This is literally a no-brainer, especially when the hidden costs of home ownership aren't even factored into this: Septic tank needs emptying? Years of built-up termite damage finally rears its ugly head? HVAC broke in the middle of the night? Don't have to worry about those costs when renting.

I know it’s anecdotal, but I’ve been contributing the max to my work 401(k) every year for 18 years and also bought a house 14 years ago. The house appreciation alone has dwarfed my 401(k) entire balance (contributions plus earnings). My downpayment of $X has turned into around $7X.

If I treated the extra housing costs (we upgraded significantly from around 1000 ft^2 to 2500 ft^2) as an additional 401(k) that I contributed to, the house still wins but it’s at least close in that case.

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#23

I guess based on averages, this can be true. For Raleigh, NC they list the rent ~$1100 and mortgage ~$1500. I have a 15yr fixed mortgage at 2.75% which I started with 20% down to avoid PMI. All-in (HOA, utilities, principle, interest, insurance, maintenance) I am paying ~$1200. And that's to live by myself, in a two-story, 1400sq.ft. townhome. We have a lovely community pool too. There is no way I could pay that litt…

While I generally agree, and own myself, there are some clear downsides to owning that may not have made your math.

* Cost of maintenance and upgrades. You now have to mow your grass or pay someone to mow it. You now need to shovel your driveway or pay someone to do it. When the toilet breaks, you now need to pay for it. When your roof wears out, you now need to replace it. If you don't replace carpeting and replace appliances, your value will slowly drop. A house is basically slowly falling apart, and with no work/money will lose value each year.

At my previous house, I put roughly 5% of my purchase price into all of this junk, per year. So on a 300k house, that works out to like 15k a year, or $1,250 per month. Depending how new or old your house is, sometimes this number can change a little... but it really adds up quite a bit.

* Exposure to real estate market. If you rent and property values double (or half), I doubt you care that much (maybe rent goes up and you move out). If you own and property values plummet (see Las Vegas in 2012), you can be really screwed. You are a lot safer from all this kind of stuff by renting. Yes you miss the gains when the market goes up, but you are protected from the falls.

* Cost to sell. Costs about 10% of your final selling price to unload a house. Stay there for 10 years and the house appreciated? Awesome, you can take it out of our appreciation. But imagine your house stayed flat or lost 10% of it's value? You need to pay another 10% on TOP of that to unload it. Again, compared to renter... the renter can just move out.

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#24
post #16

Something I've thought about quite a bit here - for renters don't you worry about being unable to control housing prices long term? I have maintenance on my house and taxes, but I can generally control both (for example I can have my house painted now or wait a year or 2). Rent prices may go up 20% without any input from you. Secondly - do renters move more than owners? How does that work if you have kids in school?…

RE prices, not really. Most landlords seem just happy to have someone not tearing up their house and making payments on time. I've not had one increase rates. If they did increase rates, well, I guess move? Or buy a house if rent everywhere is crazy. I do tend to move a lot, but that's what I like about renting. Freedom. Can just pick up and leave and onto the next adventure. I owned a house years back, and it felt l…

Are you renting from owner operators, or from a corporate owner?

Because my experience with renting apartments was that rates will go up at every renewal - don't like it? Move.

I could rent a new construction 2 bedroom luxury apartment in midtown Atlanta and pay about 1250/month in 2011 (I did this several times with buddies) - usually between 1200 and 1400 sqft. Now you can only rent much older units (constructed 70s to 90s) usually 1 bedroom or a loft for that price - usually around 900sqft.

I just searched the area I used to live for anything with 2 bedroom for 1250 and below. There is one result, and it's old student housing.

If I wanted a comparable apartment to something I could rent 10 years ago for 1250, most options now start at 2500.

Now - home prices have also spiked in my area, but the population growth doesn't seem to be slowing at all, and if I buy I'm no longer subject to yearly increases, and the perils of the rental market continuing to heat up.

Basically - owning means I get to still live where I am after the gentrification occurs. Because as a renter I'll likely be pushed out of the area (even if renting still is cheaper somewhere else in the city)

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#25

Any one else questioning the study methodology? They just compared the average rent payment vs the average mortgage payment? The average home owner is better off than the average renter so they're buying nicer places. The study made no effort to correct for this. Seems like their conclusions is a given.

Also, I’d put a premium on being able to decide on my own improvements instead of settling on the landlord-chosen paint colours and carpets and appliances.

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#26

So maybe a dumb question but how can this possibly be true without landlords losing their shirt? If it is cheaper to rent the building then to own it? They only thing I can think is this not and apples to apples comparison i.e. maybe the average rental was 900sqft apartment vs 1300sqft condo or something.

Another possible factor, though I don't know how big it is, is that landlords now aren't paying housing prices now . They purchased some time in the past.

Bingo. And, the selling price of the building increased over time with basically zero cost to the owner. Sure they paid for maintenance and improvements, but they don't need to in order to benefit from localization-based appreciation.

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE prices, not really. Most landlords seem just happy to have someone not tearing up their house and making payments on time. I've not had one increase rates. If they did increase rates, well, I guess move? Or buy a house if rent everywhere is crazy. I do tend to move a lot, but that's what I like about renting. Freedom. Can just pick up and leave and onto the next adventure. I owned a house years back, and it felt l…

Are you renting from owner operators, or from a corporate owner? Because my experience with renting apartments was that rates will go up at every renewal - don't like it? Move. I could rent a new construction 2 bedroom luxury apartment in midtown Atlanta and pay about 1250/month in 2011 (I did this several times with buddies) - usually between 1200 and 1400 sqft. Now you can only rent much older units (constructed 70…

I only rent from individuals who own the home. People should never give money to the likes of BlackRock or Invitation Homes, who are helping destroy the housing market.

Rant aside, there's certainly nothing wrong with owning. I plan to probably settle down and buy this year in fact. I was just trying to show that renting isn't all bad, and certainly has some pros over owning

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#28

Something I've thought about quite a bit here - for renters don't you worry about being unable to control housing prices long term? I have maintenance on my house and taxes, but I can generally control both (for example I can have my house painted now or wait a year or 2). Rent prices may go up 20% without any input from you. Secondly - do renters move more than owners? How does that work if you have kids in school?…

My mortgage payment has gone up $400 a month since 2013 just because of property taxes and the house value getting appraised upwards. Pretty much feels like renting at this point lol

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#29
I mean, maybe, but only for right now. Almost all mortgages are fixed-rate and virtually every rental increases every year. The very short article glosses over the tax advantages and security of owning but skips basically everything important.

Most leases are written to convert to month-to-month, and in most states this is the default if not written. In all states but 3 + DC landlord can unilaterally terminate month-to-month tenancy with proper notice. Usually this is 30 days or one calendar month, in 9 states it is less than that (lowest is 3 days in CT, 10 days in Louisiana) and in 6 states it is always or sometimes more than 30 (e.g. 60 days in NY after 1 yr, 90 after 2 yrs).

Re: Renting Is Cheaper Than Buying in All 50 Major Metro Areas in the United States

#30

This is literally a no-brainer, especially when the hidden costs of home ownership aren't even factored into this: Septic tank needs emptying? Years of built-up termite damage finally rears its ugly head? HVAC broke in the middle of the night? Don't have to worry about those costs when renting.

Sort of, if the HVAC breaks in the middle of summer you still have to deal with that and the quality of your landlord matters.

With a 5% rent increase your monthly rent spend goes from $1500 to $5880 in 30 years (the most common mortgage term).

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