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How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

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Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#21

Post by angst_ridden »

saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

I assume you can provide some data to back up the assertion that "it's not even close?"

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#22

Post by kenjackson »

tombert wrote: post #17
okareaman wrote: post #7

I was once homeless in California, strung out on drugs and alcohol, unable to quit or even think about getting treatment for that and my bipolar disorder. It is my opinion that we need to go back to locking people up and forcing them into treatment for their own good. It is inhumane to leave helpless people out on the street because of some abstract concept of personal rights. I understand the motivation of mental he…

I'm not going to pretend I know a solution to this, but wasn't part of the reason it became hard to involuntarily commit people because it was being abused? Like, fathers were getting their daughters committed for being "too promiscuous"? If that's a serious risk, I don't know that the "solution" to this problem by committing people is worth it. That said, it's a hard problem. I know it's extremely hard for people wi…

Is mental health treatment not covered in a lot of health plans?

I'm not a fan of involuntarily committing people. But I do want to make it as easy (and as cheap) as possible to get good mental treatment if they need it. I've seen the results of good therapists, and it is no less impactful than a good surgeon.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#23

Post by jeffbee »

angst_ridden wrote: post #19
jseliger wrote: post #11

Short answer: CA has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing" ( https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... ) is the only reasonable one. I've worked on Prop HHH and o…

And yet we also have a massive under-occupancy in some areas of LA cough Venice Beach cough Mar Vista cough where a lot of homes are owned by corporations for occasional use by traveling employees, people in other countries parking finances here, or people who AirBnB them for 180 days/year. In one block where I was working in Mar Vista, four older homes have been knocked down to build McMansions in the past year. All…

There is not widespread vacancy. Aggregate vacancy rates are at all-time lows statewide. There may be small jurisdictions with exceptional vacancy rates but if you are going to claim them please bring some hard evidence so we can evaluate the claims.

In my city NIMBYs are always making shit up about vacant buildings but it never turns out to be objectively true. One of their favorite targets that they always point to as "vacant luxury towers" is in reality 97% occupied. So, please don't throw out vacancy trutherism unless you are prepared to back it up.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#24

Post by jimrandomh »

angst_ridden wrote: post #19
jseliger wrote: post #11

Short answer: CA has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing" ( https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... ) is the only reasonable one. I've worked on Prop HHH and o…

And yet we also have a massive under-occupancy in some areas of LA cough Venice Beach cough Mar Vista cough where a lot of homes are owned by corporations for occasional use by traveling employees, people in other countries parking finances here, or people who AirBnB them for 180 days/year. In one block where I was working in Mar Vista, four older homes have been knocked down to build McMansions in the past year. All…

The vacancy-rate statistics do not back this up. Compare the residential vacancy rates for California vs the US as a whole: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CARVAC and https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USRVAC . Every city has some vacant properties, due to turnover and renovations and other factors.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#25

Post by spoonjim »

angst_ridden wrote: post #21
saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

I assume you can provide some data to back up the assertion that "it's not even close?"

What data would you look for to confirm the claim, and what data would you loom for to reject the claim?

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#26

Post by jeffbee »

saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

Gosh, your handwaving is almost as convincing as all the hard data available on the causes of homelessness in California. Such as: https://everyonehome.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2019HIRD...

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#27

Post by jaywalk »

athenot wrote: post #8
comodore_ wrote: post #2

When was "experiencing homelessness" term established as the norm? what's wrong with just "homeless"?

Because the lack of housing should not be an identity that we assign to the women, men and children who happen to be going through a rough time in life. They are—first and foremost—human beings. Losing sight of that can lead to dehumanization which can then exacerbate the issue.

To say someone is homeless is not assigning an identity, it's just describing the state they're in.

I'm overweight. To describe me as overweight is accurate, and I wouldn't think you were saying that it's my identity. To describe me as "experiencing obesity" just sounds silly and changes absolutely nothing.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#28

Post by metalforever »

saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

I live in the Bay Area and I have multiple friends that are homeless so let me comment here. A lot of the homeless are on disability due to some physical issue that prevents working , or are seniors. The social security checks do not pay the bills and you need an under the table side hustle in the bay to afford a room and be on social security checks. The section 8 waitlist is years long and you have to “scam” yourself in by saying you are a drug addict when you aren’t. There’s another large category of working class people in the bay that have a job but can’t afford to rent a room in a house . Or they had a job, lost it, and didn’t immediately find a new job. This comment above is extremely ignorant to the situation. Did you know that a lot of these tent camps have a months long waitlist ?

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#29

Post by okareaman »

tombert wrote: post #17
okareaman wrote: post #7

I was once homeless in California, strung out on drugs and alcohol, unable to quit or even think about getting treatment for that and my bipolar disorder. It is my opinion that we need to go back to locking people up and forcing them into treatment for their own good. It is inhumane to leave helpless people out on the street because of some abstract concept of personal rights. I understand the motivation of mental he…

I'm not going to pretend I know a solution to this, but wasn't part of the reason it became hard to involuntarily commit people because it was being abused? Like, fathers were getting their daughters committed for being "too promiscuous"? If that's a serious risk, I don't know that the "solution" to this problem by committing people is worth it. That said, it's a hard problem. I know it's extremely hard for people wi…

> Like, fathers were getting their daughters committed for being "too promiscuous"?

That's a really old-fashioned concern. It used to happen in the 50's and 60's, but patient rights have come a long way since then. The most anyone can do in CA is 5150 a relative, which is a 72 hour hold. That's not done more often because in 3 days and they're out on the street again, refusing to take meds. Mental health pros need to be able to hold someone longer and force a 30 day injection of psych meds. Paranoid schizophrenics usually won't take their meds because they don't trust the system naturally. They are unable to make a rational choice (obviously) So we just abandon them and ignore them.

> extremely hard for people without a yuppie income to get mental health treatment in the United States

Not in California. Impoverished people have access to basic free health care with Covered California. The mental health people I talked to at the local hospital were very well qualified. Too bad I was too screwed up to listen to them.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#30

Post by silvestrov »

jseliger wrote: post #11

Short answer: CA has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing" ( https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... ) is the only reasonable one. I've worked on Prop HHH and o…

> before someone mentions "mental illness" and "drugs"

they should also consider that the Nordic countries also have those problems but much fewer homeless. We don't have resources to treat all people with mental illness.

The main difference to Denmark is that the city must find housing for homeless people (by law) and they get enough money to not descend into a hole they cannot get out of.

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