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Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

blogs.forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#21

Post by SwellJoe »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #9
nkassis wrote: post #5

"So Android, like every large software product on the planet, infringes numerous Microsoft patents." while that might be true you can't tell until there is a lawsuit. Right now Microsoft is claiming this but no one wants to bet the other way.

One of the things Microsoft has done well is to pick the right pricing plan and the right industry. By making it a per unit fee on Smartphones you make it easy for manufacturers to pass the cost on to the consumer who then subsidizes it through a contract with their provider. The $5 per unit HTC pays Microsoft is only $.20 a month when passed directly on to the consumer and spread out over 2 years.

This, of course, has the side effect (or possibly even intended effect) of making Windows Phone seem more cost-effective. "Free" software isn't free, if it includes a Microsoft tax, anyway.

I just hope the large Android ecosystem starts pushing for patent reform, and soon. This is just fundamentally broken market behavior...Microsoft is getting protection money. They don't even have to provide products people want, and they still make money on every smart phone sold.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#22

Post by marshray »

eropple wrote: post #8
TomOfTTB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well its founder did leave Microsoft specifically to found a company that does nothing but patent trolling ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Ventures ). Given the number of actual products that have come out of Microsoft Research (One the last time I counted) I'd say patenting things is its primary goal at this point

Plenty of MSR stuff has ended up in the hands of other groups and ended up in shipped projects. Just look at Wikipedia: their C# research (Polyphonic C# became Cw became Joins Concurrency), F#, Seadragon, Accelerator (pretty cool, BTW), freaking ClearType... the list isn't exactly short. Surface aside, they haven't produced commercialized products, but that's not the point . Come on. This stuff is easy . Why the cont…

ClearType is "freaking" ancient http://www.grc.com/ctwho.htm

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#23

Post by mixmax »

"You might think Google could deal with this by just not infringing Microsoft’s patents, but that’s not how software patents work. Android has roughly 10 million lines of code. Auditing 10 million lines of code for compliance with 18,000 patents is an impossible task"

There's a great startup in that sentence for whoever cracks the algorithmic challenges.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#24

Post by BananaRepublic »

DaveMebs wrote: post #20
TomOfTTB wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F# is probably your only valid point though I'm not sure I'd call yet another functional programming language an innovation. Seadragon is Zooming technology that is, at best, a decent demo at this point (and probably designed to be patented). For people who don't know what we're talking about: http://zoom.it Accelerator I'd never even heard of which is probably because it was introduced in 2006 and no finished produc…

There are going to be plenty of things that come out of MS Research that people don't realize came from there (examples: PhotoSynth, Kinect). Expecting an exhaustive list is unrealistic. Furthermore, MS Research was founded over a decade ago when patent trolling was not as big a deal. It's pretty clear if you read about it that Bill Gates wanted to create the successor to the great post-war corporate research groups…

Well, Kinect owes quite alot to PrimeSense so I certainly wouldn't categorize it as a 'MS Research' product.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#25

Post by jamesaguilar »

mixmax wrote: post #23

" You might think Google could deal with this by just not infringing Microsoft’s patents, but that’s not how software patents work. Android has roughly 10 million lines of code. Auditing 10 million lines of code for compliance with 18,000 patents is an impossible task " There's a great startup in that sentence for whoever cracks the algorithmic challenges.

s/startup/technological singularity/

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#26

Post by BananaRepublic »

webjprgm wrote: post #18
TomOfTTB wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F# is probably your only valid point though I'm not sure I'd call yet another functional programming language an innovation. Seadragon is Zooming technology that is, at best, a decent demo at this point (and probably designed to be patented). For people who don't know what we're talking about: http://zoom.it Accelerator I'd never even heard of which is probably because it was introduced in 2006 and no finished produc…

Their work is used in the academic community. E.g. they have a suite for examining/debugging concurrency called CHESS which was used in a class I took in grad school and is related to and referenced by some of the research my (former) academic advisor professor does, which work is used by NASA to improve space program software.

Yes, and like their other MS Research projects it's licenced under the 'Microsoft Research Licence' which means that whatever modifications/enhancements you do to the code can only be used within this academic setting. HOWEVER, Microsoft themselves can use your modifications for whatever purposes they want, like sell them. Sweet deal...

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#27

Post by shadowfox »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #14
eropple wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of MSR stuff has ended up in the hands of other groups and ended up in shipped projects. Just look at Wikipedia: their C# research (Polyphonic C# became Cw became Joins Concurrency), F#, Seadragon, Accelerator (pretty cool, BTW), freaking ClearType... the list isn't exactly short. Surface aside, they haven't produced commercialized products, but that's not the point . Come on. This stuff is easy . Why the cont…

F# is probably your only valid point though I'm not sure I'd call yet another functional programming language an innovation. Seadragon is Zooming technology that is, at best, a decent demo at this point (and probably designed to be patented). For people who don't know what we're talking about: http://zoom.it Accelerator I'd never even heard of which is probably because it was introduced in 2006 and no finished produc…

Just a note: Cleartype was indeed invented by the ebooks team originally. But the algorithm was significantly improved with the help of John Platt at MSR. This is one of his early papers on the topic: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/?id=68972

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#28

Post by georgemcbay »

mixmax wrote: post #23

" You might think Google could deal with this by just not infringing Microsoft’s patents, but that’s not how software patents work. Android has roughly 10 million lines of code. Auditing 10 million lines of code for compliance with 18,000 patents is an impossible task " There's a great startup in that sentence for whoever cracks the algorithmic challenges.

Not really, unless you're looking to sell the software to the patent trolls and not other startups/legitimate businesses.

Even if you could do this (it requires machine learning far beyond what is currently available), the answer would always be "this software violates many patents". And once you know that for sure you're liable for triple the damages when your business is successful enough for the patent holders to come around to wring their money from you. Unfortunately, it really is better to just be ignorant in this situation and let the lawyers figure it out.

Re: Microsoft’s Android Shakedown

#30

Post by rapind »

mwsherman wrote: post #29

To be clear, the problem is incentives, i.e., the patent system. It makes this behavior legal and profitable. Expecting Microsoft (or Apple or IBM) to leave money on the table is silly.

Exactly. If they weren't cashing in on this problem their shareholder's would be pretty pissed and heads would roll.
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