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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#21

Post by [deleted] »

mellosouls wrote: post #17
paxys wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of countries have an obesity problem, but the solution isn't to outlaw eating food in parks. If you are sitting outisde with friends having a beer shouldn't be a criminal activity. Addicts need help, and the justice system cannot offer that. Let the majority of the population who can control themselves live a normal life.

Can the majority of people control themselves though in the view of social normalisation of a poison like alcohol? The very fact that you (as do most of us) consider it a "normal life" activity indicates a very skewed and unhealthy perspective has taken hold at a fundamental level.

[deleted]

Re: America has a drinking problem

#22

Post by RhodoGSA »

the way i look at it, my chances of dying outside of my control are alot higher than the things i can control. So i just live life with the knowledge that when i drink i'm just borrowing fun from the next day perhaps even shaving off a few seconds of my life probabilistically. Is it worth it? Sometimes.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#23

Post by hervature »

subsubzero wrote: post #14

I am not a heavy drinker, but one thing I noticed having moved around to a few places is how much everyone in my age group drinks(30's to mid 40's). I have gotten to know many a neighbor and they are all working professionals like me and I am just shocked that having 8-10 drinks a night seems like it comes standard for a Friday/Saturday night. I thought that it was just one location, but I moved twice in the past 2 y…

I know you said they are neighbors and I assume you live in an apartment complex because you have met "many a neighbor". But how much of this is selection bias? You meet social people, social people drink because drinking helps socializing.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#24

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

subsubzero wrote: post #14

I am not a heavy drinker, but one thing I noticed having moved around to a few places is how much everyone in my age group drinks(30's to mid 40's). I have gotten to know many a neighbor and they are all working professionals like me and I am just shocked that having 8-10 drinks a night seems like it comes standard for a Friday/Saturday night. I thought that it was just one location, but I moved twice in the past 2 y…

That's definitely just a certain personality type, I think. 8-10 drinks is pretty aggressive for a random Friday night among grown-ass adults - that's 2 full bottles of wine. At best, you won't be able to drive home and you'll feel beat up in the morning.

How long are they staying out? I'm in my thirties, and a drink every 45 minutes seems pretty standard among my peers that don't have kids and still go out. In college we'd swing for the fences, but eventually everyone (well, everyone without an actual drinking problem) figured out that keeping a nice social buzz is a more pleasant way to spend an evening with friends.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#25

Post by paxys »

barbazoo wrote: post #20
paxys wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of countries have an obesity problem, but the solution isn't to outlaw eating food in parks. If you are sitting outisde with friends having a beer shouldn't be a criminal activity. Addicts need help, and the justice system cannot offer that. Let the majority of the population who can control themselves live a normal life.

I'm not suggesting outlawing. I'm suggesting no longer supporting. Looking back at the smoking problem, to me it seems that we managed to "fix" by doing exactly that, no advertising in public spaces, no smoking in public spaces. Make it less "normal", less convenient to do something that's objectively harmful to you and a burden on society.

> I'm not suggesting outlawing. I'm suggesting no longer supporting.

That sounds like doublespeak. Either you allow something or you don't. Not allowing drinking in parks falls firmly in the "outlawing" category.

I can't speak for other countries but in the USA smoking has always been allowed in open public spaces and still is. In fact most states don't even have laws banning it in indoors. Cigarette boxes have no graphic warnings. Yet the smoking rate in the USA has consistently been among the lowest in the world.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#26

Post by croutonwagon »

mellosouls wrote: post #17
paxys wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of countries have an obesity problem, but the solution isn't to outlaw eating food in parks. If you are sitting outisde with friends having a beer shouldn't be a criminal activity. Addicts need help, and the justice system cannot offer that. Let the majority of the population who can control themselves live a normal life.

Can the majority of people control themselves though in the view of social normalisation of a poison like alcohol? The very fact that you (as do most of us) consider it a "normal life" activity indicates a very skewed and unhealthy perspective has taken hold at a fundamental level.

> The very fact that you (as do most of us) consider it a "normal life" activity indicates a very skewed and unhealthy perspective has taken hold at a fundamental level.

I would argue it and the stats answers your own question. By in large yes they can. And personally I’m not one to judge peoples lifestyle decisions provided it’s not an epidemic of people doing things like b&E to hawk a motel microwave to get their next fix.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#27

Post by barbazoo »

paxys wrote: post #25
barbazoo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not suggesting outlawing. I'm suggesting no longer supporting. Looking back at the smoking problem, to me it seems that we managed to "fix" by doing exactly that, no advertising in public spaces, no smoking in public spaces. Make it less "normal", less convenient to do something that's objectively harmful to you and a burden on society.

> I'm not suggesting outlawing. I'm suggesting no longer supporting. That sounds like doublespeak. Either you allow something or you don't. Not allowing drinking in parks falls firmly in the "outlawing" category. I can't speak for other countries but in the USA smoking has always been allowed in open public spaces and still is. In fact most states don't even have laws banning it in indoors. Cigarette boxes have no gr…

My example was of a municipality (Canada) that designated a place where it previously wasn't allowed to drink alcohol to be allowed. That's what I meant by "supporting". At least don't expand the options.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#28

Post by throwaway894345 »

r00fus wrote: post #18
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, as someone who has 2-3 drinks per day, I've always been more surprised by the amount of people who basically don't drink at all. In that chart it's over half of Americans. Travel a bit, any you'll quickly discover that a couple drinks in the evening is basically normal in much of the world. I'm not arguing that it's healthy (it's not), but the median American really doesn't drink much - our Puritan values r…

As someone who doesn't drink more than 2-3 per week and have in the past been in the 2-3 per day category, perhaps it's related to age and/or kids. When kids were tots, I couldn't afford the time to socialize, and now I'm older, consumption has dietary/sleep impacts and I can't afford that too much. Also weirdly I simply don't enjoy the buzz as much.

I also drink about this much per week. I like a beer or wine or whiskey every now and again, but I've never really seen the point in getting buzzed or drunk (or high for that matter). When I do drink, I only have 1 or 2 at a time, not out of an express desire to stay sober, but because I'm usually pretty naturally satisfied by that amount.

For whatever reason, I like sobriety. It's strange to me that people should think we need a religious motive to prefer sobriety, as though escaping or distorting reality is inherently preferable. Maybe I equally misunderstand the motives of the heavy drinker?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#29

Post by trts »

I decided to give up alcohol for a year. That was three years ago and doubt I will ever go back.

Aside from having better sleep than at any other point as an adult, I truly enjoy the activities I partake in just as much, if not more, than when I still paired them with alcohol. It took about 6 months to stop feeling like I was missing out, and now I feel like everyone else is.

Anxiety in general is noticeably lower (this was a huge windfall for me when the pandemic started).

Enjoyment of conversation, food, setting, all seem richer and doesn't flag as quickly once the alcohol is metabolized.

The end of the drinking activities don't leave me sleepy or craving bad food. I can go home and read a book or get some work done.

General reduction in workout recovery time and aches and pains.

Holidays are way easier to get through.

The only drawbacks have been the situations you discover are entirely dedicated to consumption, e.g. dive bars, beer gardens, work holiday parties and happy hours. Without having dulled your senses adequately, some of these things tend to be only loud, smelly, or without much to offer besides booze and banter.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#30

Post by tmm »

I’ve never been much of a drinker, generally preferring soda, sports drinks, or sweet tea to stay hydrated. In my experience, this is unusual.

My friends, relatives, etc. all exclusively drink beer when doing yard work, home improvement projects, or hobbies like working on cars. When I’m at the marina, I’m the only one not drinking beer while working on their boat. Maybe all of these people stick exclusively to water in private, but I doubt it.

Given that, I can see how it’s quite easy for someone to consume 5-10 drinks per day. I’ll easily drink the equivalent of a six pack if I’m working outside, and if I were a beer drinker I don’t think I’d find it excessive to drink at least that much over the course of a day.

However, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the group drinking a six pack of 90-calorie light beer over the course of a day is healthier than people like me drinking a six pack of Dr. Pepper in the same timeframe. Cirrhosis on one hand, diabetes on the other. Pick your poison, I guess.

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