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Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

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Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#21

Post by runawaybottle »

aszen wrote: post #7
EMM_386 wrote: post #6

> I don't know why full stack webdevs are paid so poorly. No really, they should be paid like half a mil a year just base salary. Fuck they have to understand both front end AND back end AND how different browsers work AND networking AND databases AND caching AND differences between web and mobile AND omg what the fuck there's another framework out there that companies want to use? Seriously, why are webdevs paid so…

I think people in the industry are paid based on the potential value they can create (whether real or not), knowing many things or understanding fancy technologies matters little if one can't put them to use for the benefit of the company.

Also, most companies like to brand themselves as ‘tech’ to signal that they are growth based. Why is Peloton a tech company? They’re not.

A lot of us have jobs because companies need to fulfill the image. It’s half the reason why so many people are allowed to do full-stack when in reality they would have no business dealing with those parts of the stack in a real operation.

So no, you don’t actually deserve more money because you are working on more things in an inconsequential space (e.g What the entire Peloton engineering team does is probably bullshit. You need maybe a few devs).

There are certainly better examples than Peloton, but that’s what came to mind (a home gym tech (lol) company). Can’t wait until Bowflex starts hiring out web developers.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#22

Post by daenz »

eqmvii wrote: post #5

> Good code is code that can be understood by a junior engineer. Great code can be understood by a first year CS freshman. The best code is no code at all. This a thousand times. Having empathy for future devs, maintenance, and bug fixes is so important.

Amen. Something bizarre I have noticed though in junior-almost-senior engineers is that they pride themselves in obfuscating and writing "highly complex" logic, with no documentation. It's almost like they are demonstrating their new abilities in the worst way possible. I have been dealing with one of these engineers recently, and they have expressed to me that they love writing because it's so terse. It's been a point of friction, actually, because I have been trying to get other engineers to help on the software they have been contributing to, but it is nearly indecipherable without the original author's help.

Very frustrating.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#23

Post by booleandilemma »

daenz wrote: post #18

>Don't meet your heroes. I paid 5k to take a course by one of my heroes. He's a brilliant man, but at the end of it I realized that he's making it up as he goes along like the rest of us. I thought they were going to go the direction of "he's an asshole" and was ready to accept that, but this particular criticism is actually disturbing. People with strong visions can often appear to be "making it up as they go along,…

A common meme I've seen recently is "no one knows what they're doing".

I think people like to believe this because it helps them cope with impostor syndrome, or maybe they think it puts them on even ground with people who do in fact know what they're doing.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#24

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

NortySpock wrote: post #12
vageli wrote: post #3

> The most underrated skill to learn as an engineer is how to document. Fuck, someone please teach me how to write good documentation. Seriously, if there's any recommendations, I'd seriously pay for a course (like probably a lot of money, maybe 1k for a course if it guaranteed that I could write good docs.) I agree but think it is more than just _documentation_: effectively communicating ideas through text was one o…

The first thing to learn is that there are four types of documentation: learning-oriented tutorials goal-oriented how-to guides understanding-oriented explanations or discussions information-oriented reference material https://www.writethedocs.org/videos/eu/2017/the-four-kinds-o...

I would suggest you avoid thinking in too general of terms like this. There are dozens of kinds of docs. It's better to think about the document's specific purpose, audience, what you need to convey, what the audience wants to know, and how they want to absorb it. Then write, then read it as that intended audience, see if that person can make sense of it, and if it provides enough information. If you can't put yourself in their shoes, have the audience proofread it.

Two important lessons I learned:

1. Formatting and direct communication is very useful. It can make the difference between someone stopping and noticing critical information, or skipping it because they're lazy readers.

2. You probably don't know the correct way to convey information, and the audience probably doesn't know how to tell you how to convey it either. You need to listen for when the docs fail: when somebody says they read the docs but still don't know something or don't do something right. That means your doc has a "bug" in how it gets through to the reader. Experiment, change things around, add/remove information, etc until the bug is gone.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#25

Post by the_only_law »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #13

> When I first started, I was enamored with technology and programming and computer science. I'm over it. This is the saddest. One more soul taken by the shrinking of the hacker culture.

It happened to me too. In fact I'm in the process of leaving the field for something else altogether. I do tend to get weird looks and "whys" when I mention it, but its difficult for me to really explain in a concrete way, but I've just lost all excitement and motivation to do anything with programming (despite my mind still operating in very much a hacker mindset, where I see X and thing "I bet I could make X do Y)

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#26

Post by hnedeotes »

vageli wrote: post #3

> The most underrated skill to learn as an engineer is how to document. Fuck, someone please teach me how to write good documentation. Seriously, if there's any recommendations, I'd seriously pay for a course (like probably a lot of money, maybe 1k for a course if it guaranteed that I could write good docs.) I agree but think it is more than just _documentation_: effectively communicating ideas through text was one o…

One can hope, but sadly I don't think it's going to be an easy shift.

People managing work, from what I've seen, still prefer to babble over their scribbled 5 basic points than taking the time to do their job and create relevant textual information. Then you listen, you take notes, and then you go and produce whatever documentation of the objective is required to at least understand if it's going to work. Of course you still will have gaps in your understanding, so then more calls, and repeat. In the end, unnecessary/missing features, a whole bunch of time wasted in crap, deadlines missed, burnt time, all of which could have been avoided if someone just had taken the time to do their supposed job - this is not to say it wouldn't have to be discussed, or that there's no need for back and forth and calls, etc, it's just instead of starting halfway you start from -50% or something.

Even in outsourcing platforms there's been a shift contrary to that. At least two years ago and before that, video calls or calls weren't really usual unless you were in some months long collaboration - now even there everyone expects video calls on the interview... It doesn't matter if it's a $100 one time job or whatever.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#27

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

the_only_law wrote: post #25
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #13

> When I first started, I was enamored with technology and programming and computer science. I'm over it. This is the saddest. One more soul taken by the shrinking of the hacker culture.

It happened to me too. In fact I'm in the process of leaving the field for something else altogether. I do tend to get weird looks and "whys" when I mention it, but its difficult for me to really explain in a concrete way, but I've just lost all excitement and motivation to do anything with programming (despite my mind still operating in very much a hacker mindset, where I see X and thing "I bet I could make X do Y)

Try building something of your own just for fun. See if you see sparks of your old love back.

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#28

Post by jtouri »

vageli wrote: post #3

> The most underrated skill to learn as an engineer is how to document. Fuck, someone please teach me how to write good documentation. Seriously, if there's any recommendations, I'd seriously pay for a course (like probably a lot of money, maybe 1k for a course if it guaranteed that I could write good docs.) I agree but think it is more than just _documentation_: effectively communicating ideas through text was one o…

Effectively communicating through text amplified due to WFH. If you can avoid syncing up on video chat and resolve something with a couple of back and forth messages. That's a win

Re: Drunk Post: Things I've Learned as a Sr Engineer

#30

Post by the-pigeon »

daenz wrote: post #18

>Don't meet your heroes. I paid 5k to take a course by one of my heroes. He's a brilliant man, but at the end of it I realized that he's making it up as he goes along like the rest of us. I thought they were going to go the direction of "he's an asshole" and was ready to accept that, but this particular criticism is actually disturbing. People with strong visions can often appear to be "making it up as they go along,…

It really depends.

I take this really just to mean "everyone has faults".

People often idealize heroes and think of them as beyond human. If you do that and met your hero then your illusion will often be shattered. But the problem is just that you were putting them on an unreasonable pedestal.

Of course some people are frauds and some people have no idea what they are doing but manage to make people think they do. But I didn't read this as being one of those situations. Just someone they saw as beyond human being only human.

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