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Scottish Café

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Re: Scottish Café

#21

Post by nicbou »

the_local_host wrote: post #3

People back then knew that "hanging out" in a public place was worthwhile. I wish there was a model of public place where you and your pals could buy breakfast+lunch, or lunch+dinner, and occupy the table for the whole time in-between. Bars let you stay for long periods, but after three or four hours everyone ends up hammered, which is a different thing.

There are lots of places where someone can show up and get work done. University students will know a few places, on and around the campus.

I just can't think of a collaborative space where like-minded souls collide, aside from perhaps hacker spaces. Is there anything like those Paris cafés where seemingly all famous artists went and drank together?

Re: Scottish Café

#22

Post by chewz »

duxup wrote: post #10

I followed Wikipedia to "Scottish Book" and checked the names of the people involved... only to find a lot of them executed in WWII :(

Both Germans and Soviets did target Polish university professors as a matter of policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Prosecution_Book-Polan...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Lviv_professors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_Krakau

> Once more, the Führer must point out that the Poles can only have one master, and that is the German; two masters cannot and must not exist side by side; therefore, all representatives of the Polish intelligentsia should be eliminated [umbringen]. This sounds harsh, but such are the laws of life.[]

[] https://archive.org/details/adolfhitlerevilm0000altm

Re: Scottish Café

#23

Post by wirrbel »

jl6 wrote: post #18

I could find no explanation of why it was called the Scottish café or what the link to Scotland might have been. Any ideas?

I don't know about that particular history, but naming things is hard and naming cafes and hotels based on foreign places was kind of customary. "Cafe Wien" (obviously nod to Viennas Coffee house culture), etc. In Germany at least the Country + Hof combination is still fairly common for established hotels ("Englischer Hof", literally "English Yard/court").

So I could very well imagine that someone founding a Cafe looked at which names were already used in town and settled on "Scottish", maybe also due to 'underdog' sympathies perhaps with Scotland (?) but that is pure speculation on my part.

Re: Scottish Café

#24

Post by neiman »

Boy, this sounds awesome! As a mathematician who's gonna spend his next few months in Warsaw, is there anything there similar to this? I'd love some real, live math "arguments" over coffee!

Re: Scottish Café

#25

Post by wirrbel »

the_local_host wrote: post #3

People back then knew that "hanging out" in a public place was worthwhile. I wish there was a model of public place where you and your pals could buy breakfast+lunch, or lunch+dinner, and occupy the table for the whole time in-between. Bars let you stay for long periods, but after three or four hours everyone ends up hammered, which is a different thing.

It boils down to economics and custom.

A few years ago, travelling in the US we, a group of European exchange students) I remember well how we were after lunch or dinner almost thrown out of restaurants by servers (i.e. brought the bill without having asked for it, etc.). I remember it so well because it really felt rude to me (we were not really hanging around unduly and might at times have ordered a round of deserts with a small break after the meal which the business then lost but that is another story).

Of course from a business perspective its better to get 3 parties to have lunch on a table than 2, and esp. in the US with the enormous tips (and lowered minimum wage) for servers, there are strong incentives for that kind of behaviour. Ultimately landlords/markets also factor this in when setting rent prices for restaurant spaces.

So to come back to the Kaffeehause-style establishments I always wonder how they were economically viable back then. Probably a combination of cheap labor, people spending quite a lot potentially in the Kaffeehaus [studying math, I guess they just rented a room (potentially not even heated) and not an apartment, then socialised outside or in cafes].

I think to pull off a Kaffeehaus for hanging out today it would probably work out more in a 'Club' model where you pay a membership fee which allows for stable operation.

Re: Scottish Café

#26

Post by durnygbur »

chewz wrote: post #22
duxup wrote: post #10

I followed Wikipedia to "Scottish Book" and checked the names of the people involved... only to find a lot of them executed in WWII :(

Both Germans and Soviets did target Polish university professors as a matter of policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Prosecution_Book-Polan... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Lviv_professors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_Krakau > Once more, the Führer must point out that the Poles can only have one master, and that is the German; two mast…

To give an idea how these massacres wrecked Polish society, imagine British society (and Europe) if Germans with Austrians succeeded pursuing people from the Black Book [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_(list)

Re: Scottish Café

#27

Post by Tade0 »

neiman wrote: post #24

Boy, this sounds awesome! As a mathematician who's gonna spend his next few months in Warsaw, is there anything there similar to this? I'd love some real, live math "arguments" over coffee!

Unfortunately this is now history.

Nowadays people go hiking in the mountains instead and argue about math there. My algebra professor from college does a biannual kayaking trip.

Not a mathematician, but I spent a few years during high school hiking with math students, talking mostly about math. We even went on a sort of pilgrimage to Lviv to see the grave of Stefan Banach and of course the Scottish Café.

I still remember one actual conversation from that trip:

-Where are we anyway?

-In Ukraine.

-What kind of response is that?

-The most precise I could give.

Re: Scottish Café

#28

Post by neiman »

Tade0 wrote: post #27
neiman wrote: post #24

Boy, this sounds awesome! As a mathematician who's gonna spend his next few months in Warsaw, is there anything there similar to this? I'd love some real, live math "arguments" over coffee!

Unfortunately this is now history. Nowadays people go hiking in the mountains instead and argue about math there. My algebra professor from college does a biannual kayaking trip. Not a mathematician, but I spent a few years during high school hiking with math students, talking mostly about math. We even went on a sort of pilgrimage to Lviv to see the grave of Stefan Banach and of course the Scottish Café. I still rem…

Lol.

Discussing math while hiking is great, but regular meetings in cafes are a whole different animal. There's something about the repetitivity, the short meetings, the "mundane" atmosphere etc, which is good for me for math discussions. Hiking trips are too "special" to bring the same experience.

Re: Scottish Café

#29

Post by cpach »

neiman wrote: post #28
Tade0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this is now history. Nowadays people go hiking in the mountains instead and argue about math there. My algebra professor from college does a biannual kayaking trip. Not a mathematician, but I spent a few years during high school hiking with math students, talking mostly about math. We even went on a sort of pilgrimage to Lviv to see the grave of Stefan Banach and of course the Scottish Café. I still rem…

Lol. Discussing math while hiking is great, but regular meetings in cafes are a whole different animal. There's something about the repetitivity, the short meetings, the "mundane" atmosphere etc, which is good for me for math discussions. Hiking trips are too "special" to bring the same experience.

It might not be possible now during the pandemic. But under normal times it could have worked to start a math group at Meetup.com and then spread that link via Twitter, Facebook, local universities etc. As a starting point 2-3 persons could hold flash talks that could spawn off into interesting discussions. A local sponsor could make sure that some food and beverages are available to the attendants.

Just a thought.

Re: Scottish Café

#30

Post by neiman »

neiman wrote: post #28
Tade0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this is now history. Nowadays people go hiking in the mountains instead and argue about math there. My algebra professor from college does a biannual kayaking trip. Not a mathematician, but I spent a few years during high school hiking with math students, talking mostly about math. We even went on a sort of pilgrimage to Lviv to see the grave of Stefan Banach and of course the Scottish Café. I still rem…

Lol. Discussing math while hiking is great, but regular meetings in cafes are a whole different animal. There's something about the repetitivity, the short meetings, the "mundane" atmosphere etc, which is good for me for math discussions. Hiking trips are too "special" to bring the same experience.

Good idea, I may try that.
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