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PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

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Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#21
post #6
post #3

> This may sound a little foreign to all you folks coming from a non-Unix background, but PHP doesn't cost anything. You can use it for commercial and/or non-commercial use all you want. You can give it to your friends, print it out and hang it on your wall or eat it for lunch. Welcome to the world of Open Source software! Smile, be happy, the world is good. For the full legalese, see the official license. What a nic…

It’s funny. For all the hate php gets these days, it was a pretty big part of the web getting to where it’s at today. I was super pleased when php 7 came out, this project isn’t going anywhere just yet.

It was??? It always will be.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#22
post #3

> This may sound a little foreign to all you folks coming from a non-Unix background, but PHP doesn't cost anything. You can use it for commercial and/or non-commercial use all you want. You can give it to your friends, print it out and hang it on your wall or eat it for lunch. Welcome to the world of Open Source software! Smile, be happy, the world is good. For the full legalese, see the official license. What a nic…

I guess you are lacking some context.

Back in the day, you could:

* Be bold enough to use Linux or FreeBSD and use CGI or Perl as the only free version

* Use ASP but pay license fees for Windows NT, ISS and SQL Server

* Use ColdFusion which was kind of trendy but was pretty expensive.

When PHP arrived it was so refreshing. I used to make my stuff in Apache+PHP, MySQL and Linux and it was magical what you could do with very few lines of code.

The worse part was to manually get the sources of the dependencies one by one, hit ./configure and make, so you can compile a php module for Apache

In those days Microsoft was pretty strong, everything used to be closed source and payed and that's why for people who understand what it was back then, this does not sound like the splashy announcements of today.

That's why every time you see Linus, Stallman or any person that was active in the open source movement, you should pay a beer to them. The world of technology owe a lot to them, specially the underdogs.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#23
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP deliberately has a low barrier to entry, and as a result there is a lot of poor quality code out there, written by beginners. People like to use this fact to suggest that the entire language is bad, which it most certainly is not. I've seen lots great, well structured and performant PHP code - the quality depends on the programmer, as it does for any other language.

It's not the wand, it's the wizard.

If you recall the cartoon of programming languages as weapons, PHP was a sword without a hilt, which was quite fitting. Despite the low barrier to entry, there were "features" that were / are distinctly dangerous, and should not have been exposed to beginners (the comments section in the official documentation os a perfect example of this).

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#24
Someone from my dads office gave my some printed pages about ASP from MS. Until that time I was doing all my web dev in Perl (it was basically either that or c) with print "hello... et. After reading about ASP, I concocted my own miserable php-like thing in perl where you could put perl code in between to add logic. I tried to find the code (I have it somewhere in dropbox, I'm sure), but I remember I failed at doing it reliably with regexes, so I made a while(1) loop finding all open , escaping the html before and after, printing it and adding the code in between. It was only a handful of lines and worked really well; I wrote a lot of cgi for my clients with it.

But it was slow (even after adding cache) and it need quite a bit of setup and libraries (CPAN with my own layers to make it easier to use), so I was very happy when I discovered PHP 3 (I did not know it existed before that).

Good memories; deploying a site cheaply by scp/rsync the files.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#25
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

Definitely. I started with PHP when I was only 12 or 13 years old. Adding some logic inside your .html files (mostly includes, that were like magic back then[1]), renaming to .php and upload them to the server using FTP was so simple. A few years later, when I had to set up a lot of things to run Django I was surprised at how hard it was.

PHP was simple to use, and to understand its logic, because it was embeded into HTML itself if you want to. No need to write views, controllers, templates, anything. And most of the shared hosting (paid and free) supported it.

[1]Includes were like magic back then because if you had a heavy content website with a lot of inner pages (fansites), updating the navigation sidebar was a pain in the ass. Originally they were made with framesets, later iframes (with no borders, but if the content changed, a scrollbar appeared). When I (and my friends) started to use PHP and be able to use includes, it was awesome.

(Edited to fix formatting)

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#27
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

This is right when I started using it and it launched my career in software dev. You could build anything. Combine that with being 21-22 and the associated naivité and nothing was impossible.

Prior to PHP as part of a LAMP stack, I had indeed been cobbling Perl scripts and GDBM key/pair databases to do web apps for various projects and customers. The ability to just print to the browser with PHP without explicitly having to send HTTP headers was wonderful.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#28
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

> You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done.

The implications of what this meant for security were very important too, but in a negative way. Instead of an application with a single or few small entry points (like CGI), you could just design your PHP app with a bunch of files spread across the exposed public directory structure, and for a long time this was the reigning paradigm for PHP.

This, combined with the extension controlling whether it was processed as a PHP script or a plain text file meant that anyone making a quick and dirty backup of a file they were changing that didn't consider this would often end up exposing files to the public they didn't intend (mv config.php config.php.bak).

Additionally, since most people were running on shared hosting platforms and PHP was usually run as the webserver user, and many applications were designed to be dropped entirely into a public web structure, any capability for writing locally (like allowing file uploads) often consisted of setting a directory world writable to drop files in. Even ignoring how often people screwed up setting permissions and set everything of theirs world writable, even when done correct this usually ended up being security through not-so-obscurity, since common apps had default locations they used more often than not (customizing that required more user interaction and knowledge to set up, which was against the ethos of "drop in and use" PHP heavily leaned on initially).

PHP's ease of use was the ease of use of Windows 95 compared to Windows NT or Windows 2000. Sure, things are easier when you don't have to care about users and permissions and security. But you need to bootstrap any success you have into fixing those problems ASAP.

PHP was always a victim of it's own success in this regard. The thing that made it easy to use for people was that it did away with a lot of the security concerns that were (barely) in place at that time, and the effects of that are what made it a nightmare for those managing it, and often at one point or another those using it as they were bitten by these problems.

I'm glad we've all moved on from that. PHP did a lot to make it easier for people to do stuff online, and that in itself is a good thing and a laudable achievement. I'm unsure if it was a net gain though. It's too complex for me to easily say it was one, nor that it was definitively a net loss.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#29

I haven’t used PHP in years, but Laravel was such a fun and productive framework to work in. It really has a way of making you feel like a “code artisan”, something I typically only hear coming from Rails developers. In contrast, every Node app I’ve worked on has felt somewhat amateur, even if the code was high quality.

Laravel only came out 10 years ago. It’s not old.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#30
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

It basically did for simple web programming what visual basic did for Windows desktop toys: allowed you to throw some UI together (drag & drop components in the VB case, any old HTML with links or forms for PHP) then start stringing bit of code in haphazardly to link it together. No need to learn a more complex compiler or other build tools, worry about configuring CGI or other web server tech (unless running PHP yourself), ...

Great for prototyping, or just to encourage new programmers (as they can see results almost immediately).

Though PHP was essentially thrown together initially so had a massively inconsistent standard library, had some insanely unsafe defaults for a few major versions, and other issues that it is very valid to complain about. It was also closely associated with mysql which at the time played very fast and loose with data integrity (2008-02-31? - perfectly valid date to store! Foreign keys? Let the business layer worry about rules like that! Transactional integrity? Again, sort that elsewhere!) in the name of ease & claims of performance - the two shared bits of each others reputation.

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