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Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

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Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#21

Post by rad_gruchalski »

loceng wrote: post #18
protoax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, you can be financially successful and still be a bad person. Bernie Madoff wasn't the most moral person.

So you changed the argument to bad vs. not bad person. Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs? How do you account or calculate that vs. whatever other behaviours he may engage in? Funny you bring up Ponzi schemes too, considering that's what Bitcoin is - just global and decentralized - with a few other…

> Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs?

I don’t think he’s the reason. I think the reason is the regulatory pressure on reducing carbon emissions and subventions for anything electric.

The more the traditional manufacturers invest in EV’s, the worse for Tesla and Musk. Look at all the models from Mercedes, they’re all better than Tesla. The new Audi GT? Taycan? Any time over Tesla. Not just the car but the service network, spares, supply chain, build quality. I think Musk is going to play himself with Tesla but time will tell.

And let’s see in 10 years if EV’s are a net benefit to anything. Generally all this electro-crap. Let’s see how the green leaning part of the society reacts to fibreglass windmills landing in the landfill on the 20 year cycle.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#22

Post by RocketOne »

ketamine__ wrote: post #12
polishdude20 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.

You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.

Except that he wouldn't because he knows that would manipulate the market and he's more responsible than that.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#23

Post by SigmundA »

RocketOne wrote: post #22
ketamine__ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.

Except that he wouldn't because he knows that would manipulate the market and he's more responsible than that.

Its not just that he's more responsible, its illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#24

Post by ub99 »

ketamine__ wrote: post #12
polishdude20 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.

You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.

I actually agree with this analogy. However, Bitcoin is not stock - unless now, after first calling a currency, then a store of value, we magically transition to calling Bitcoin a stock-like asset.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#25

Post by loceng »

ketamine__ wrote: post #17
loceng wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, shouldn't it be taken as a lesson that if the kids want to play with fire, an unregulated market (include MLM-Ponzi scheme structure by all accounts), then that's one type of pitfall that exists? Elon's also publicly said, tweeted not too long ago: "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so just because the markets didn't know or report on that to help provide a balanced, critical breakdown to promote…

Did Elon issue a warning to the public? Did he tell them not to buy? Did he post a tweet agreeing with Munger and telling people to stay away? He fed the fire because it helped raise his public persona. I think he does have responsibility.

Sure if you want to play that game - it was great of him to make it news to highlight how bad/energy intensive (for what end?) Bitcoin is. So thanks Elon.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#26

Post by bob33212 »

ketamine__ wrote: post #12
polishdude20 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.

You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.

But people would continue to buy Coke. And Coke would continue to make a profit and Buffet would look stupid when the company did well, even if he was able to cause a 10% dip in the stock. It is unlikely that the world would stop drinking code because Buffet said he didn't like the stock.

Bitcoin on the other hand, has no profits and only can be successful by having everyone agree it is better to own than gold. So if Musk's opinion is followed by many other people it will bring bitcoin down for a long time.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#27

Post by natmaka »

ub99 wrote: post #2

It’s astonishing how a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value of an entire monetary ecosystem via a series of Tweets. What’s the advantage of Bitcoin being - allegedly - so independent from governments and other centralized powers then?

In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy.

For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world.

Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficult under some governments/centralized powers.

Many celebrities publish various claims about "cryptos", and even a major disagreement isn't innocuous. Major disagreement between central powers about important matters, for example money, may lead to war.

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#28

Post by moralestapia »

natmaka wrote: post #27
ub99 wrote: post #2

It’s astonishing how a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value of an entire monetary ecosystem via a series of Tweets. What’s the advantage of Bitcoin being - allegedly - so independent from governments and other centralized powers then?

In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy. For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world. Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficul…

>correlation does not imply causation

It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance.

But back to the topic ...

Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?

Re: Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

#29

Post by natmaka »

moralestapia wrote: post #28
natmaka wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy. For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world. Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficul…

>correlation does not imply causation It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance. But back to the topic ... Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?

> It does not exclude it either

Indeed. I wrote "nobody really knows what affects the value". You wrote "a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value", and my answer was just a reminder: nobody knows for sure.

> Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions

I never wrote this. Speaking about vacuous things: I'm tired of the straw man trick

In my opinion Musk Tweets probably had an effect, but I doubt anyone can show to which extent, especially indirectly (people acting upon their thought about the reaction of other people to Musk's Tweets...).

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