Map of the Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Map of the Internet

#21

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 19, 2021, 4:59 AM UTC

na85 wrote: post #20

cookiengineer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kind of semantics are not really important for the masses. As I said, the end user's OSI layer 1 is the infrastructure's OSI layer 6 anyways. How the routing layer is achieved doesn't matter, as the masses use HTTP as a protocol (Android, iOS, Browser). Sidenote: The torrent protocol and BENCODE is usually encapsulated in its transport layer (and yes, it's HTTP/S) as raw UDP is blocked and can't be used to disc…

>We can also play this a little longer up to the point where cables are not really cables anymore because of fibre infrastructure and how wavelengths are multiplexed. Indeed we can, and we'd soon arrive at my original point again which is that conflating things like "the web" and "the internet" or TCP and SDH or $thing and $related_thing might win you some imaginary internet points on HN but these things exist as dis…

[deleted]

Re: Map of the Internet

#22

Post by edoceo » Wed, May 19, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #10

excalibur wrote: post #3

Anyone find HN?

I’m tired of looking. It’s in there somewhere. Somebody find it...

Found the Project Manager.

Re: Map of the Internet

#23

Post by pmontra » Wed, May 19, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

cookiengineer wrote: post #19

na85 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bittorrent alone probably accounts for a huge chunk of internet traffic, and it's not http. SMTP and NNTP probably also account for large fractions because the MTAs still speak SMTP, not HTTPS and Usenet itself is something like 100 TB per day. Either way, arguing that the web == the internet based on protocol usage is to me a bit like arguing TCP == HTTP/S. They're different things at a conceptual level and the sema…

These kind of semantics are not really important for the masses. As I said, the end user's OSI layer 1 is the infrastructure's OSI layer 6 anyways. How the routing layer is achieved doesn't matter, as the masses use HTTP as a protocol (Android, iOS, Browser). Sidenote: The torrent protocol and BENCODE is usually encapsulated in its transport layer (and yes, it's HTTP/S) as raw UDP is blocked and can't be used to disc…

> These kind of semantics are not really important for the masses.

Do the masses think that WhatsApp and Netflix, for which they know they need an internet connection, are the web? Or all their apps on the phone?

When people are told "look on the internet for X" chances are that they use an app instead of a browser or ask Alexa.

Re: Map of the Internet

#24

Post by cookiengineer » Wed, May 19, 2021, 7:24 AM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #23

cookiengineer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kind of semantics are not really important for the masses. As I said, the end user's OSI layer 1 is the infrastructure's OSI layer 6 anyways. How the routing layer is achieved doesn't matter, as the masses use HTTP as a protocol (Android, iOS, Browser). Sidenote: The torrent protocol and BENCODE is usually encapsulated in its transport layer (and yes, it's HTTP/S) as raw UDP is blocked and can't be used to disc…

> These kind of semantics are not really important for the masses. Do the masses think that WhatsApp and Netflix, for which they know they need an internet connection, are the web? Or all their apps on the phone? When people are told "look on the internet for X" chances are that they use an app instead of a browser or ask Alexa.

> chances are that they use an app instead of a browser or ask Alexa

which in return is either a WebSocket, WebRTC or HTTP/S stream and kinda reinforces my point that the Web and Internet are equivalent metaphors for most users.

Re: Map of the Internet

#25

Post by amenghra » Wed, May 19, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

obligatory: https://xkcd.com/195/, https://xkcd.com/256/, https://xkcd.com/802/

Re: Map of the Internet

#26

Post by apples_oranges » Wed, May 19, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

Any one man / two man websites on there?

Re: Map of the Internet

#27

Post by basch » Wed, May 19, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

na85 wrote: post #7

hollerith wrote: post #2

> this project aims to concisely, but still comprehensively visualize the current state of the World Wide Web , and document the largest and most popular websites You don't want to call it the map of the Web instead?

It's surprising how many ostensibly-tech savvy people don't understand the difference between the web and the internet.

What percentage of the properties in the map are primarily accessed through a proprietary app? Facebook, YouTube?

I will concede that deep linking makes apps more web like, but the hybridization of accessing places through web sites AND apps, and the expectation of both options, makes this MORE than just the web to me.