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Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

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Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#21

Post by bawolff »

runarberg wrote: post #17
joelbluminator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree about the settlements but truth is thats not nearly enough for Hammas. They made it clear Israel is Palestine and jews have no business living there since they are colonists etc etc. Jews should basically f** off back to Europe. So again, as an Israeli what would you do? Europe is not so appealing to jews lately.

The international community is adamant about a two state solution. So one option for the Israeli government is to grant Palestine independence. Hamas has not always been a majority government in Palestine and chances are that an independent Palestine will not support Hamas in it’s skirmishes against a separate Israel state. Another option is a one state solution. Israel could grant every Palestinian a citizenship and…

Your option 2 is that Israel should annex Palestine? I can't imagine palestine would like that very much and i think that's also a war crime.

The two state solution seems like the most likely way forward, but if it was easy it would have happened already. After all, it failed in the 40s, and since then a lot of hate has built up on both sides.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#22

Post by runarberg »

bawolff wrote: post #21
runarberg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The international community is adamant about a two state solution. So one option for the Israeli government is to grant Palestine independence. Hamas has not always been a majority government in Palestine and chances are that an independent Palestine will not support Hamas in it’s skirmishes against a separate Israel state. Another option is a one state solution. Israel could grant every Palestinian a citizenship and…

Your option 2 is that Israel should annex Palestine? I can't imagine palestine would like that very much and i think that's also a war crime. The two state solution seems like the most likely way forward, but if it was easy it would have happened already. After all, it failed in the 40s, and since then a lot of hate has built up on both sides.

No, Annexation is apart from the single state solution. The gist of the single state solution is that there will be one state (lets call it Israel-Palestine for this purpose) with a new constitution. One benefit of the one state solution is the fact that resettlements of west-bank Israelis can be avoided. Of course that might mean that the current settlements which are illegal under international law will not be answered for. Although ideally, along with the formation of the new Israel-Palestine an international war tribunal would find the people responsible for planning these settlements guilty of war crimes and make them pay with a hefty prison sentence.

This is different from annexation which would basically mean a surrender for the Palestinians. Israel would continue as is with the current constitution. Palestinians would become Israeli citizens but on the terms of the Israelis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#23

Post by bawolff »

runarberg wrote: post #22
bawolff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your option 2 is that Israel should annex Palestine? I can't imagine palestine would like that very much and i think that's also a war crime. The two state solution seems like the most likely way forward, but if it was easy it would have happened already. After all, it failed in the 40s, and since then a lot of hate has built up on both sides.

No, Annexation is apart from the single state solution. The gist of the single state solution is that there will be one state (lets call it Israel-Palestine for this purpose) with a new constitution. One benefit of the one state solution is the fact that resettlements of west-bank Israelis can be avoided. Of course that might mean that the current settlements which are illegal under international law will not be answ…

Sure, if both sides agree to a one state solution, then its not annexing. But Israelis doesn't seem to like the idea and Palestinians don't seem to like the idea, so that seems unlikely.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#24

Post by runarberg »

bawolff wrote: post #23
runarberg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Annexation is apart from the single state solution. The gist of the single state solution is that there will be one state (lets call it Israel-Palestine for this purpose) with a new constitution. One benefit of the one state solution is the fact that resettlements of west-bank Israelis can be avoided. Of course that might mean that the current settlements which are illegal under international law will not be answ…

Sure, if both sides agree to a one state solution, then its not annexing. But Israelis doesn't seem to like the idea and Palestinians don't seem to like the idea, so that seems unlikely.

Are you sure about that? Has there been recent polling that shows low support? The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians. I would imagine that support would skyrocket among both nations if two state solution were to be taken off the table (which is increasingly likely).

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#25

Post by tguvot »

runarberg wrote: post #24
bawolff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if both sides agree to a one state solution, then its not annexing. But Israelis doesn't seem to like the idea and Palestinians don't seem to like the idea, so that seems unlikely.

Are you sure about that? Has there been recent polling that shows low support? The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians. I would imagine that support would skyrocket among both nations if two state solution were to be taken off the table (which is increasingly likely).

on israeli side one state solution is acceptable only by ultra-left (kumbaya and peace forever) or by ultra-right (lets annex and have israel from jordan river to the sea).

two state solution won't be taken off the table, it's just a scare tactic. but even if it were, chance that support for it will skyrocket in Israel is non-existent.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#26

Post by dragonwriter »

runarberg wrote: post #24
bawolff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if both sides agree to a one state solution, then its not annexing. But Israelis doesn't seem to like the idea and Palestinians don't seem to like the idea, so that seems unlikely.

Are you sure about that? Has there been recent polling that shows low support? The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians. I would imagine that support would skyrocket among both nations if two state solution were to be taken off the table (which is increasingly likely).

> The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians.

The thing is “one-state solution” means three different incompatible things: displacement of Israeli Jews, displacement or political suppression of Palestinian Arabs, and a multiethnic, multireligious democracy. You can’t really add up support for all three and call it support for one thing.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#28

Post by joelbluminator »

runarberg wrote: post #22
bawolff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your option 2 is that Israel should annex Palestine? I can't imagine palestine would like that very much and i think that's also a war crime. The two state solution seems like the most likely way forward, but if it was easy it would have happened already. After all, it failed in the 40s, and since then a lot of hate has built up on both sides.

No, Annexation is apart from the single state solution. The gist of the single state solution is that there will be one state (lets call it Israel-Palestine for this purpose) with a new constitution. One benefit of the one state solution is the fact that resettlements of west-bank Israelis can be avoided. Of course that might mean that the current settlements which are illegal under international law will not be answ…

I think even countries like the U.S are having a problem maintaining their democracy, how does an Israel Palestine work? Half of Palestinian or more support Hamas, in Israel the numbers of orthodox and ultra right jews is growing. Constitutions mean something in Denmark, not in the Middle East.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#29

Post by open0 »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #4
ta_ca wrote: post #2

go to your profile, enable shadowdead and check last 2 days for the keywords israel|palestine not surprisingly this one made it to front page. i am unable to classify what this one is, is it propaganda or just a sanitized trash. the subject line gives away alot of to things you are going to see on the video. an example: israel did this, palestinian civilians did that, then israel did this, as a result hamas shot rock…

> israel did this, palestinian civilians did that Hamas. The terror organization linked to Iran. Hamas. Not civilians, terrorists are responsible here. No actor in this is innocent. Hamas had this strategy for years, they can't defeat Israel, but dead children in Gaza are perfect to ruin Israel's reputation in the world. And that is the strategy Iran followed for years now, and it is a well documented strategy for IS…

What a dumb take.

Re: Why Israel and Palestine are fighting

#30

Post by mseidl »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #4
ta_ca wrote: post #2

go to your profile, enable shadowdead and check last 2 days for the keywords israel|palestine not surprisingly this one made it to front page. i am unable to classify what this one is, is it propaganda or just a sanitized trash. the subject line gives away alot of to things you are going to see on the video. an example: israel did this, palestinian civilians did that, then israel did this, as a result hamas shot rock…

> israel did this, palestinian civilians did that Hamas. The terror organization linked to Iran. Hamas. Not civilians, terrorists are responsible here. No actor in this is innocent. Hamas had this strategy for years, they can't defeat Israel, but dead children in Gaza are perfect to ruin Israel's reputation in the world. And that is the strategy Iran followed for years now, and it is a well documented strategy for IS…

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c...

Israel is responsible for Hamas coming to power to fight the PLO. But it turns out they were way worse then the PLO ever was.

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