hmm
MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
21–30 of 57 posts
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#22This talk struck me as conflicting in a sort of have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind of way. The wrinkles part[1] summarizes a lot of what this individual is advocating. Paraphrasing (with equivalent liberal handwaving of details as the talk does): I want to write FPGA code like any other high-level programming language ( but quickly dismiss that the hard part of developing native HDL is in fact that it's fundamentally…
Good points! His talk is full of enthusiasm, and I am partial to the overall notion of better integration of data and peripherals.
Still it seems much of what he's wanting could be handled by approaches like the RP2040 chip from the RPi folks that let's you define your own low level pin level protocols using assembly to program state machines. Also many newer MCUs allow you define almost any function on any pin via internal IO muxes. Some MCU's even contain a small FPGA / CPLD.
Also, I prefer the "Mikroe Click" add-on / peripheral board from Mikroe Electronics. It's got a decent ecosystem and it handy for making quick "proto-pcb"'s that integrate sensors but allow you to iterate smaller circuits (even with hand made proto boards https://www.mikroe.com/proto-click). There's a few other non-Mikroe vendors as well.
Given how difficult FPGA's seem to be to program, there's lots of alternatives to achieve the same goals. Things like RISC-V or OpenPOWER and the leveling off of improving semiconductor node sizes will probably lead to a lot more "customizable peripherals" in the next decade, but programmed using the MCU.
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#23Why not use a propeller or propeller 2? Similar benefits, cheaper, easier to code on.
I can't speak for the OP, but for myself, my motivation for learning FPGA's is to find out what they can do, that I can't already do on a microcontroller. I'm already pushing a screaming fast MCU to its limits. The engineers look at my designs and say: "You're trying to do stuff in an MCU that's easy in a FPGA."
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#24Q for the community. FPGA seems to be used for three things: 1) Custom I/O or high performance interfaces that aren't widely standardized 2) Prototyping boards / processor cores 3) Blazing fast implementations of algorithms that are hard to run otherwise.
Is that about right?
If even close, (3) is very interesting to me for a variety of reasons. Is my understanding correct that this is a reasonable use of FPGAs and that maybe now is a reasonable time to get into it?
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#25Q for the community. FPGA seems to be used for three things: 1) Custom I/O or high performance interfaces that aren't widely standardized 2) Prototyping boards / processor cores 3) Blazing fast implementations of algorithms that are hard to run otherwise. Is that about right? If even close, (3) is very interesting to me for a variety of reasons. Is my understanding correct that this is a reasonable use of FPGAs and t…
Correct. I know how to use both well and would like to use an fpga in my own projects, but it never makes sense to. Even a custom Lisp processor is slower then extra instructions on a faster processor :( and not like I have time for that anymore
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#26This talk struck me as conflicting in a sort of have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind of way. The wrinkles part[1] summarizes a lot of what this individual is advocating. Paraphrasing (with equivalent liberal handwaving of details as the talk does): I want to write FPGA code like any other high-level programming language ( but quickly dismiss that the hard part of developing native HDL is in fact that it's fundamentally…
FPGA evangelists like this really need a reality check. Programming in RTL is not easy, and it's not really a skill that most people need, so it doesn't make a lot of sense as an educational tool. The "killer app" for hobbyist FPGAs might be some sort of "SoC builder" tool that lets you build a specific microcontroller around a few high-performance cores, and then program it like software. But don't worry. Since 2000…
> Since 2000, mainstream FPGA programming has been right around the corner.
As an avid technologist I dabble in everything from electronics to assembler. But, every time I try dipping my toe into FPGA programming I quickly retreat!
The tools are too complex and the whole process has a learning curve that far out weigh using a stock CPU/SoC.
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#27This talk struck me as conflicting in a sort of have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind of way. The wrinkles part[1] summarizes a lot of what this individual is advocating. Paraphrasing (with equivalent liberal handwaving of details as the talk does): I want to write FPGA code like any other high-level programming language ( but quickly dismiss that the hard part of developing native HDL is in fact that it's fundamentally…
FPGA evangelists like this really need a reality check. Programming in RTL is not easy, and it's not really a skill that most people need, so it doesn't make a lot of sense as an educational tool. The "killer app" for hobbyist FPGAs might be some sort of "SoC builder" tool that lets you build a specific microcontroller around a few high-performance cores, and then program it like software. But don't worry. Since 2000…
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#28Why not use a propeller or propeller 2? Similar benefits, cheaper, easier to code on.
FPGAs just allow you to remove a layer or two of abstraction and corresponding latency (vs a CPU) where you don't want/can't have it and gives you control, speed and/or efficiency improvements in exchange. The price you pay is you're dealing with things at a much lower level (i.e. bits and wires)... if you don't need the trade-off, don't make it. They are for the situations where there is no off-the-shelf solution that quite solves your particular problem adequately.
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#29Q for the community. FPGA seems to be used for three things: 1) Custom I/O or high performance interfaces that aren't widely standardized 2) Prototyping boards / processor cores 3) Blazing fast implementations of algorithms that are hard to run otherwise. Is that about right? If even close, (3) is very interesting to me for a variety of reasons. Is my understanding correct that this is a reasonable use of FPGAs and t…
Caveat on 3):
The only real benefit of an FPGA for algorithms is when you're algorithm benefits from parallelization.
There is nothing intrinsically faster in programmable logic.
The point is that execution is truly concurrent, as long as you have space in the FPGA fabric, you can _almost_ do everything at the same time.
I say this as someone who has done a fair share of FPGA projects, it is very difficult to make the business case for an FPGA, if your problem can be solved with GPU programming on a COTS GPU.
Regardless of whatever you read, FPGA's do have a purpose but will most likely continue to only be used in niche/custom applications.
Re: MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (2019) [video]
#30CuriousMarc just did an intro[1] to logisim-evolution[2], which can generate verilog to then program FPGAs.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmDpcV0X7k
[2] - https://github.com/reds-heig/logisim-evolution