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Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

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Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#21
post #20

What killed rock n roll is the same thing that "killed" every other music genre before: Demographics. People get older and young people want to differentiate themselves from older people, so they just do different things, including listening to different music. This even happened with what we consider classical music, from Beethoven Eroica to Stravinski Rite of Spring and specially Operas. Old people will consider a…

Why hasn't rap died?

It's been popular for multiple generations now.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#22

I often reflect on the similiarities to that and how techno and house became EDM. When I started going to Midwestern raves in the 1990s they were literally some of the first fully integrated places I hung out in. Definitely some of the Detroit techno parties we went too, some of the first places where it was a majority Black space. EDM now is thought of as this totally white music, all electronic music really, by eve…

Motor City Lounge brings back good old memories! Still a fan of AUX88 to this day.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#23
The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago:

  In the beginning
  Back in nineteen fifty five
  Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show
  And all that jive
  The white man had the schmaltz
  The black man had the blues
  No one knew what they was gonna do
  But Tchaikovsky had the news
(Although, Tchaikovsky? What the...?)

What I want to know is why young black Americans, do not, in their majority, do rock anymore. I get that the music industry always tries to control what gets airtime, but who needs the music industry today, and who needed the music industry in the past? If it was for the music industry, nobody would have heard of Jimi Hendrix- a black man with a guitar? That'll never sell!

Look at metal and how it took hold. Growing up in Athens, Greece, it seemed like every neighbourhood had a metal band and you would never know by looking at billboards, or even coverage in the metal press (a lackey of the music industry, if there ever was one). Euro kids took Rock from the Americans and ran with it and made something new, all ours, and all working class (see the early years of Sabbath and Priest in Manchester; remember the apocryphal story of Ozzy and Tony having one pair of good shoes between them and wearing them on alternate days to go out). Metal quickly became the authentic popular music of entire generations, without ever any need of mainstream acceptance. Metal grew from below, with no help from above and despite the disdainful snorts of mainstream music critics.

So why didn't the black grasroots ever sprout an analogous new rock scene, instead of turning towards the mainstream, big stage, light show, for-profit music that comes from black artists for the last few decades?

Why Rihana and Beyonce, rather than a new Jimi Hendrix? Female, even. Why is Rock 'n' Roll pretty much dead to black kids, nowadays?

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#24
post #20

What killed rock n roll is the same thing that "killed" every other music genre before: Demographics. People get older and young people want to differentiate themselves from older people, so they just do different things, including listening to different music. This even happened with what we consider classical music, from Beethoven Eroica to Stravinski Rite of Spring and specially Operas. Old people will consider a…

Why hasn't rap died? It's been popular for multiple generations now.

Hip hip is the philosophy of survival in a racist culture. It dies when the racism dies.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#25
post #20

What killed rock n roll is the same thing that "killed" every other music genre before: Demographics. People get older and young people want to differentiate themselves from older people, so they just do different things, including listening to different music. This even happened with what we consider classical music, from Beethoven Eroica to Stravinski Rite of Spring and specially Operas. Old people will consider a…

Classical music is 300+ years old. I also love Opera as do my parents and grandparents.

I think it is more about what gets played on the radio. The music is good and new. That tricks our brain into pursuing it.

Eventually each genre finds its own classics that basically capture most of the attention.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#26

I often reflect on the similiarities to that and how techno and house became EDM. When I started going to Midwestern raves in the 1990s they were literally some of the first fully integrated places I hung out in. Definitely some of the Detroit techno parties we went too, some of the first places where it was a majority Black space. EDM now is thought of as this totally white music, all electronic music really, by eve…

Hm I don't quite agree but it could be that the scenes are different in different places. It could also be that our definitions of EDM differ. I might also be missing something so take my comment as just my perspective from where I stand.

I think there is a split between commercialized EDM and "real" EDM. The true culture and heritage of house and techno definitely live on in the greater electronic music scene in general, especially online and in clubs. I call that scene EDM because it is easier than trying list all the dozens of subgenres it has grown to include, and commercialised EDM used to be referred to as Top40 during the late 2000s, as a way to differentiate it from the "real" EDM scene. Not sure if that term lives on.

It is usually pretty easy to tell when a song exists in the commercial realm. House is unique in that it has had more than one era of commercial success, but I think there has always been a delineation between commercialised house (stuff on the radio and in adverts) and the culture of house music (in the clubs and mixes)

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDM is its own separate thing now, it basically means "radio pop with a four-on-the-floor beat and synths".

No. Just no. You can redefine terms but this doesn't make it so. Edit: "Despite the industry's attempt to create a specific EDM brand, the initialism remains in use as an umbrella term for multiple genres, including dance-pop, house, techno and electro, as well as their respective subgenres." - Wikipedia. Wikipedia being right for a change, this is industry BS. Don't buy it like a willing consumer.

What, no? At least in Europe, EDM is a specific set of big club / festival House that's all about big bombastic bass drops. If one of my Techno buddies says with disdain 'all they were playing at that place was EDM' I know exactly what he means, and it isn't techno

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn't rap died? It's been popular for multiple generations now.

Hip hip is the philosophy of survival in a racist culture. It dies when the racism dies.

I hope it doesn't. I'd like to see a world without racism and with hip hop. Also, there have been so many changes in the popular sub-genres of hip hop, with each new generation of musicians altering the popular form (maybe not always for the better (RIP DMX)), that it's almost like rap has died and been reborn several times since the 80 -- a bit like rock between the 50s and 2000s.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First: The parent comment is stereotyping and racist. Edit: they changed their comment to remove some racism (use of "white" and "whitewashing") but are still racist. They don't understand what EDM is: the superset of most electronic music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music In my opinion, the phylogeny of EDM and related genres looks like this: Funk beget disco and boogie. Funk and boogie beget ele…

EDM is its own separate thing now, it basically means "radio pop with a four-on-the-floor beat and synths".

I don't agree at all with that outlook, unless I missed a beat EDM has encompassed everything from House to Trance, Jungle to Breaks, even IDM, acid and techno, and the dozens of genres in between.

I see in another comment they mention that's how their friends understand it, so maybe it's a regional thing.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Just no. You can redefine terms but this doesn't make it so. Edit: "Despite the industry's attempt to create a specific EDM brand, the initialism remains in use as an umbrella term for multiple genres, including dance-pop, house, techno and electro, as well as their respective subgenres." - Wikipedia. Wikipedia being right for a change, this is industry BS. Don't buy it like a willing consumer.

What, no? At least in Europe, EDM is a specific set of big club / festival House that's all about big bombastic bass drops. If one of my Techno buddies says with disdain 'all they were playing at that place was EDM' I know exactly what he means, and it isn't techno

One can nicely troll young British ravers by casually referring to UKEDM, which is a play on UKG (UK garage) and the less frequent UKJ (UK jungle).
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