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Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#21

Post by vkou »

supernova87a wrote: post #3

How would a "waiver" work? Last I understood about law, a country can't take away the rights of companies (or people) without their consent or modifying the patent laws. Or is this a matter where because it has to do with overseas patent protection, the US could decline to enforce certain agreements? And don't companies have patent protection in every country they seek to do business anyway?

A country can take away whatever rights it wants to within its borders. That's the whole point of sovereignty.

Patent laws are also not some natural, inalienable right. They are artificial constructs, provided as a courtesy, because the government feels that in the general case, they are more beneficial than harmful.

In a particular case, they might be more harmful than beneficial.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#22

Post by da_big_ghey »

johnchristopher wrote: post #12
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

I feel like this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The Covid vaccines are one of the greatest success stories of modern medicine ever, and are literally worth trillions. I want the companies and investors in the pharmaceuticals that have made these to become fabulously wealthy as an incentive for companies to invest in the capabilities to produce these. I want creating a successful vaccine to be a bigger…

> I feel like this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The Covid vaccines are one of the greatest success stories of modern medicine ever, and are literally worth trillions. And it took a global pandemic for pharma to realize it so maybe they aren't totally up to the task. And it seems the consensus is that states provided much needed money to turn mrna vaccines into a real thing.

no, it is that state money make faster. try many alternative at once with promise of some payment even in failure, run trial in parallel, these thing. same result would have reached, just taking more time. or maybe they would find private investing, we are not knowing.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#23

Post by celticninja »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

I feel like this is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The Covid vaccines are one of the greatest success stories of modern medicine ever, and are literally worth trillions. I want the companies and investors in the pharmaceuticals that have made these to become fabulously wealthy as an incentive for companies to invest in the capabilities to produce these. I want creating a successful vaccine to be a bigger…

There were plenty of agreements/contracts drawn up with nation states that meant they had definite buyers and a definite income from those contracts. Their R&D costs were assured of a return due to the install base. They are already being rewarded financially, they weren't making and distributing these out of the goodness of their hearts.

So they dont need to become fabulously wealthy, they just need to turn a decent profit. Which they are doing. And right now I would suggest that AstraZeneca, Pfizer and Moderna are 3 of the most well known pharma companies, because they were first to market with working vaccines, there are plenty of pharma companies that tried, failed and thus you dont even know their names. So those successful firms are already being rewarded. No need to call for outsized returns for these companies.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#24

Post by bumbada »

supernova87a wrote: post #3

How would a "waiver" work? Last I understood about law, a country can't take away the rights of companies (or people) without their consent or modifying the patent laws. Or is this a matter where because it has to do with overseas patent protection, the US could decline to enforce certain agreements? And don't companies have patent protection in every country they seek to do business anyway?

Patents are monopolies give by States. In fact in the past, in countries like France, patents were sold to the highest bidder, like the patent for manufacturing straw baskets or ceramic containers.

Basically, if you did not pay the King,or someone else paid the King more, the State will destroy your business.

The modern idea of patents comes from that, adding the requirement to document an innovation instead of just paying money to the King.

The State can do end the monopoly at any given time. They have done lots of times in the past, specially in wars.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#25

Post by Teracotage »

Kliment wrote: post #4
supernova87a wrote: post #3

How would a "waiver" work? Last I understood about law, a country can't take away the rights of companies (or people) without their consent or modifying the patent laws. Or is this a matter where because it has to do with overseas patent protection, the US could decline to enforce certain agreements? And don't companies have patent protection in every country they seek to do business anyway?

NIH (a US government run institution) holds the main patents on mRNA technology.

I thought it is the German couple behind mRNA, no? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-v... https://www.nature.com/articles/d41573-020-00119-8

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#26

Post by cigaser »

Pandemic has shown that mRNA vaccination manufacturing is a question of national security. I do not think those patents will be enforceable, if another pandemic starts, and countries decide to make their own vaccines. And countries like India, China, Thailand or Russia have pretty advanced biotech manufacturing and research.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#27

Post by throwaway4good »

Something here smells deeply hypocritical.

Currently vaccine companies such as the German Curevac (which is the vaccine company Trump famously tried to buy) is being held back by lack of core ingredients which are under American export bans.

The US still upholds the export bans setup by the Trump administration. Biden can just revoke those. Yet he promotes the idea of waivering vaccine patents knowing well how hard that would be to do in practice.

And exactly how is it supposed to work? Will Pfizer no longer have to pay license fees to BioNTech?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#28

Post by baybal2 »

Indian pharmacies already disregard medication patents without anybody's permission.

Vaccine manufacturing is just a way more involved process than anything what an average organic synthesis shop can handle. Dealing with antibodies, proteins, plasmids, or RNA requires real factories rather than garage labs.

What one need is a complete process transfer: instructions on setting up every process, along with supplies needed, and operation training, and supervision.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#29

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

tobessebot wrote: post #16
double-a wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. So then these companies should have nothing to fear.

They rightly fear that in 2-3 years, when the pandemic is likely over everywhere and other people have figured out how to commercialize the IP, they won't be the only ones producing their vaccines. This isn't going to help India or anyone in the short term and there'll be more than enough doses for every person on Earth by next year. Why should they not retain the IP rights to make a profit on new generations that ne…

Is it reasonable to believe that the knowledge that the USA doesn't intend to support the pursuit of damages for patent violation would have an impact on manufacturers now.

If you held a firm conviction that in the near future you'd be able to act on the IP without being in violation, would you be more motivate to progress toward doing so more swiftly?

As a patent holder, would you feel more secure that you could issue cease and desist notices and peruse damages after the waiver is lifted?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#30

Post by DrAwdeOccarim »

Kliment wrote: post #4
supernova87a wrote: post #3

How would a "waiver" work? Last I understood about law, a country can't take away the rights of companies (or people) without their consent or modifying the patent laws. Or is this a matter where because it has to do with overseas patent protection, the US could decline to enforce certain agreements? And don't companies have patent protection in every country they seek to do business anyway?

NIH (a US government run institution) holds the main patents on mRNA technology.

The NIH has claims on the 2P mutation in the spike that appears to make it better. Cellscript holds the N1mPsi patent (may not be essential, watch for CureVac p3 read out soon). The ionizable lipids currently have composition of matter coverage for a few companies, which is probably the crux of the discussion. Everything else is confidential know-how, which is already scaling as fast. I'm not sure exactly what this gets anyone...
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