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Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

financialpost.com

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Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#21

Post by smnrchrds »

kenhwang wrote: post #11
belval wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is basically just an economic extension to the US. I find it funny when people talk about us developing our own industry for X. We don't do that. Our approach is to be a pool of specialized and culturally similar people for the US to use as cheaper labor (when the loonie is low).

I think it's even more degrading than that. Canada basically exports healthy, educated, wealthy people to the US for little in return (well, other than being best friends with the world superpower anyway). As long as there's favorable compensation and tax policies on the US side, Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the exp…

> Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the expensive taxpayer funded social benefits

I see this repeated often on the web, but I hate this saying. I work in engineering. I'm surrounded by bright individuals, both fresh and experienced. Saying the brightest people leave Canada implies only the dumb and at most the mediocre remain in Canada, which I find not only offensive, but also not matching the reality.

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#22

Post by klyrs »

enriquto wrote: post #13
natrik wrote: post #9

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iroikDYIT5Q... Canada's deficit is among the worst of all relevant countries at the moment.

Which countries are irrelevant? By the way, your graph only shows the data for Canada. I guess the rest of the countries are irrelevant?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current...

Per capita, our debt is comparable to the US

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#23

Post by _udy5 »

klyrs wrote: post #22
enriquto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries are irrelevant? By the way, your graph only shows the data for Canada. I guess the rest of the countries are irrelevant?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current... Per capita, our debt is comparable to the US

Wikipedia data says (2017)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/debt-to-gdp-continues-to-ri...

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#24

Post by kenhwang »

vkou wrote: post #17
bushbaba wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has lots and lots of fresh water. And global warming will open lots of farm land. Could easily see Canada become the agricultural leader of North America.

> Could easily see Canada become the agricultural leader of North America. The agricultural leaders of are countries that are nearly universally dirt-poor.

Then there's California, arguably North America's current agricultural leader.

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#25

Post by polishdude20 »

throwawaysea wrote: post #18

I don’t understand the case exactly. Is it that there’s room to innovate (like WeavAir, the startup they feature early in the article) or that there’s unmet demand (what the article references with COVID semiconductor shortages)? Certainly innovations can create markets on their own but I don’t see a temporary shortage as being some kind of opportunity to break into the industry. What would they do - build fabs? And…

Yeah what's not evident to me is how Canada has the upper hand in this? If it can be done in Canada, it can be done in the US (and pay better)

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#26

Post by BeetleB »

david-gpu wrote: post #16
kenhwang wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's even more degrading than that. Canada basically exports healthy, educated, wealthy people to the US for little in return (well, other than being best friends with the world superpower anyway). As long as there's favorable compensation and tax policies on the US side, Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the exp…

> Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the expensive taxpayer funded social benefits The bulk of Canadian taxes are paid by the "brightest, healthiest and wealthiest" [0], so the expensive social benefits Canadians enjoy are largely funded by extracting taxes from these people, not the other way around. Thus, I can hardly b…

Nice argument, but when you look at the data, it doesn't make sense.

According to your link, the top 10% of Canadians pay about 50% of the taxes in Canada. In the US, the top 10% pay a larger share: 70% (although this is only federal data).[1]

So moving to the US to avoid subsidizing others is probably not the best rationale.

[1] https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-inco...

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#27

Post by NonEUCitizen »

rhodozelia wrote: post #6
belval wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is basically just an economic extension to the US. I find it funny when people talk about us developing our own industry for X. We don't do that. Our approach is to be a pool of specialized and culturally similar people for the US to use as cheaper labor (when the loonie is low).

Canada used to count Avro and Bombardier in their aerospace industry. We used to have Nortel and blackberry as leaders in telecommunications. We can have our own industry for X and we can be competitive world leaders in it.

You have (present tense) Shopify.

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#28

Post by vkou »

kenhwang wrote: post #24
vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could easily see Canada become the agricultural leader of North America. The agricultural leaders of are countries that are nearly universally dirt-poor.

Then there's California, arguably North America's current agricultural leader.

California isn't rich because of agriculture. It's a rich state that happens to do some agriculture.

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#29

Post by sattoshi »

smnrchrds wrote: post #21
kenhwang wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's even more degrading than that. Canada basically exports healthy, educated, wealthy people to the US for little in return (well, other than being best friends with the world superpower anyway). As long as there's favorable compensation and tax policies on the US side, Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the exp…

> Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the expensive taxpayer funded social benefits I see this repeated often on the web, but I hate this saying. I work in engineering. I'm surrounded by bright individuals, both fresh and experienced. Saying the brightest people leave Canada implies only the dumb and at most the mediocre r…

There are certainly bright people who remain in Canada, but they usually have clear reasons that convince them to stay rather than double their salaries.

Re: Making the case for a homegrown Canadian semiconductor industry

#30

Post by kenhwang »

BeetleB wrote: post #26
david-gpu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada's brightest, healthiest, and wealthiest will just hop over to benefit from the more favorable conditions there after reaping the expensive taxpayer funded social benefits The bulk of Canadian taxes are paid by the "brightest, healthiest and wealthiest" [0], so the expensive social benefits Canadians enjoy are largely funded by extracting taxes from these people, not the other way around. Thus, I can hardly b…

Nice argument, but when you look at the data, it doesn't make sense. According to your link, the top 10% of Canadians pay about 50% of the taxes in Canada. In the US, the top 10% pay a larger share: 70% (although this is only federal data).[1] So moving to the US to avoid subsidizing others is probably not the best rationale. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-inco...

A 90th percentile Canadian in BC would make ~$100k and pay 25.37% to taxes.

A 90th percentile American in Washington right across the boarder would make $125k and pay 24.53% to taxes.

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