Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#21

Post by naturalauction »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

Australia awards citizenship extremely generously. You only need to be living in the country for four years (which can be as an international student), there is no income test, no employment test, no language test, no requirement to give up your prior citizenship. The 'Australians' in India are citizens of opportunity, who were born in India and retain their citizenship there, and the sympathy for them from actual Au…

>The 'Australians' in India are citizens of opportunity, who were born in India and retain their citizenship there, and the sympathy for them from actual Australians is zero.

India doesn't recognize dual citizenship, while Australia might not require you to give up your prior citizenship, India will if you want to become Australian. [0] You can become an "Overseas Citizen of India" but this is just a permanent visa that can be revoked at any time and does not confer voting rights. [1]

[0] https://india.embassy.gov.au/ndli/dualnlty.htm

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/08/india-strips-c...

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#22

Post by kylehotchkiss »

fpig wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.

Many Indians acquire citizenship abroad, get NRI status, and spend long visits in India with family. They have valid claims in both countries.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#24

Post by twobitshifter »

tinus_hn wrote: post #17
0xfaded wrote: post #2

I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who deci…

All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.

Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#25

Post by publicola1990 »

tinus_hn wrote: post #17
0xfaded wrote: post #2

I'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who deci…

All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.

I remember India itself violating this as part of pandemic related restrictions last year, when they tried to restrict entry of Indians who were abroad back to India.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#26

Post by BelenusMordred »

fpig wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.

> I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India

It's Australia's 3rd biggest trading partner after China and the US, along with huge numbers of 1st generation citizens. It's more surprising the stated numbers of Australians over there are so low.

For one of the biggest exporters on Earth I'm always amazed at how sheltered Aussies are, many live in a bubble and have to be one of the most irrationally risk-averse people you can find.

Taiwan has been able to competently deal with covid for a year despite being right in the epicentre of it all, there's no flight caps and the only restrictions are for tourists, most people quarantine at home. In comparison, Australia still can't manage to take in more than 50 people on a flight, nor more than 6000 a week into the entire country while the cost for a family of 4 returning to the country often tops $40,000.

As a guide, over 12000 people are leaving the country every week now, more than double than are allowed to come back, it has turned into flight bidding game amongst the richest who can afford to leave for holidays and easily come back paying quarantine costs with no regard for the needs of anyone else who works or studies overseas. Nearly two thirds of the people flying into the country now are not actually citizens, the flight cap doesn't change to accommodate this.

It's truly bizarre to watch most think the government has "handled this well" and general polling supporting these actions. The whole system is breaking down at a fundamental level and yet the only metric Australians seem to judge it by is infection numbers.

Once the dust settles it will more look like pushing women and children out of the way as you rush for the exits of a burning building. I doubt anyone will look back with pride on decisions like this, it undermines the entire principal of citizenship and makes a mockery of signed human rights declarations.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#29

Post by Closi »

0xfaded wrote: post #5
Closi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging. What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, y…

I see your points, especially with the conflict if citizenship. There will be an obligation on the government to come up with a solution, but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. I could see an island quarantine facility being established.

If only the Australian government had the resources to rent a few busses and hotels.

Re: Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India

#30

Post by nix23 »

Closi wrote: post #29
0xfaded wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your points, especially with the conflict if citizenship. There will be an obligation on the government to come up with a solution, but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. I could see an island quarantine facility being established.

If only the Australian government had the resources to rent a few busses and hotels.

Or even something crazy like a quarantine room in the embassy before flown out from india...and since your alone (or other previously quarantined aussies) in the aircraft that should be no problem...but more important, if you go back are you instantly thrown into the jail? Questions after questions.

And even funnier, 66k OR prison...that's what i call fair.

Post reply on HN