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The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

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Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#21

Post by izacus »

agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Yeah, I'm a beginner diver (You're experience matches mine so I'm now extra careful to vet all the diving centers - especially looking for complaints of divemasters being too "hardass" on people and demanding good equipment / qualifications. A lot of other divers are still surprised that my inital diving instructor actually checked if I could do the required 200m swim by demanding that I do it in the pool before starting training.

I've also bought my own equipment because of that - who knows just how well the regulators, dive computers and BCDs are maintained in those places. It's scary enough that you need to trust them with air and tank quality.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#22

Post by iudqnolq »

agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Edit: I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't try to claim alpine hiking is totally safe. Just that there is less of an issue with guides taking inexperienced people beyond their competency. Clearly alpine hiking isn't totally safe as many people sadly perish doing it.

I'm not sure I agree about alpine hiking. Most of the failure states I've seen can be avoided by having at least one competent person (out too late, lost, continue in bad weather, etc.) There is still the issue of approving people who aren't fit enough, but you've got a much slower start than diving and you'll probably notice that sort of thing before you're too far in to turn back.

Edit: Possibly you meant more mountaineering-y sorts of trips instead. If you're talking about the sort of thing where you might use protection then I agree with you.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#23

Post by bluGill »

nspattak wrote: post #20
agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Not a diver myself but my best friend is (he is also an instructor as well as cave/shipwreck diver and he has also worked for a dive center with a lot of tourists). I remember him telling me that diving in shipwrecks(or caves) requires additional certification, so I assume that those who have only the first/second star were not allowed to join (especially in a trip by an all-inclusive resort). What you describe sound…

> What you describe sounds like a terrible and irresponsible trip to me.

That is typical of tours and resorts. These are not in the US where the law might investigate. Just some divers who will show anyone around. Many will teach you to dive, a two hour course is enough for a simple dive (ie.something you could snorkel to), then they take you on a first dive that needs far more training.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#24

Post by oggeline »

dTal wrote: post #19

Idle speculation, perhaps a diver could answer - could it be that the reef forms a kind of natural solar pond, leading to an unusual osmotic (and therefore density) gradient? Thus resulting in divers suddenly dropping like a stone when they hit a certain depth? The Red Sea is one of the saltiest bodies of water in the world.

All your buoyancy comes from non rigid devices (vest, suit). As you go deeper those devices compress and you lose buoyancy causing a feedback loop. Compounded with loss of vertical references, you can quickly sink to the depth where the air you breathe will become toxic. At that point you don’t have the mental capacity to save yourself.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#26

Post by ghaff »

agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

The two biggest things with alpine hiking are probably weather and not turning around when you should. (I could probably add just being grossly ill-prepared like lacking map and compass and perhaps depending too much on electronic gizmos.)

Over the holidays I was reading a book about a winter fatality on Mount Washington a few years back. The person was actually very well-prepared and fit. And even had some big mountain experience--but always with guides. And simply went out on a day she should never have been out on.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#27

Post by ghaff »

iudqnolq wrote: post #22
agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Edit: I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't try to claim alpine hiking is totally safe. Just that there is less of an issue with guides taking inexperienced people beyond their competency. Clearly alpine hiking isn't totally safe as many people sadly perish doing it. I'm not sure I agree about alpine hiking. Most of the failure states I've seen can be avoided by having at least one competent person (out too late, lost, co…

I was debating disagreeing with the equivalence with alpine hiking. As I said in another comment, it's mostly about judgment when it comes to alpine hiking. Although perhaps that’s the case with diving as well. Of course, get more into mountaineering and there are a ton of factors like avalanches you can't fully protect against. (And there's of course some overlap with winter hiking in the mountains.)

ADDED: re: fitness. I've definitely had to take people down when I've been leading a trip and even had to turn a group around. But so long as you don't push on past where it's safe, it mostly just means people don't get up the mountain. (Of course, it can be a problem with canyons.)

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#28

Post by nix23 »

agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

>Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking)

You are absolutely correct, in mountaineering risk-management you have two risks an objective an subjective.

If you do hiking, the objective risk is low (hey i am just wandering), but the subjective is often much higher then one thinks (falling rocks, rapid weather change, out of water, break you angle, no way to call emergency, aggressive mother-cows etc.).

If you plan to climb a Wall the objective risk is obvious (you can fall down, rocks break out and hit you etc), and because of that you are already aware of those risks, the chance that you calculated the subjective risks in too, is much bigger.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#29

Post by christophilus »

iudqnolq wrote: post #22
agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Edit: I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't try to claim alpine hiking is totally safe. Just that there is less of an issue with guides taking inexperienced people beyond their competency. Clearly alpine hiking isn't totally safe as many people sadly perish doing it. I'm not sure I agree about alpine hiking. Most of the failure states I've seen can be avoided by having at least one competent person (out too late, lost, co…

One of my (very experienced) alpine hiking instructors died after a long day summiting Rainer. His team made a rookie mistake, but it’s surprisingly easy to do when you’re exhausted and you feel as if you’re nearly done with the worst of it.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#30

Post by hutzlibu »

iudqnolq wrote: post #22
agent008t wrote: post #16

Diving seems like one of the recreational activities where it is easy to end up doing something much riskier than you intended (another I'd say is alpine hiking): 1. Being able to easily sign up for a dive at an all-inclusive resort makes it seem more 'fine', you get a false sense of security that you will be taken care of. 2. Dive shops tend to be fairly relaxed with checking if someone is properly qualified to go o…

Edit: I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't try to claim alpine hiking is totally safe. Just that there is less of an issue with guides taking inexperienced people beyond their competency. Clearly alpine hiking isn't totally safe as many people sadly perish doing it. I'm not sure I agree about alpine hiking. Most of the failure states I've seen can be avoided by having at least one competent person (out too late, lost, co…

"Most of the failure states I've seen can be avoided by having at least one competent person"

Thats why "guides" exist. And if course it is very safe with a competent guide.

But alpine hiking can be indeed very dangerous, without.

Because Alpine hiking has climbing elements in it.

Add to that a storm and wind and fog - and you have tourists with sandals on slippery rock about to fall very deep. Happens allmost every year.

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