Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but… • Hacker News Board

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#21

Post by jcims » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

SadCanadian wrote: post #13

tenpies wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on geography. For example, in Canada, housing is up 30% YoY. Trudeau's Federal government recently said that even a 10% correction in housing would be unacceptable. In practice, Canadian housing isn't housing - it's a 30% (or better) government bond that you get to live in or rent out. That's a 30% return guaranteed by a sovereign state that will gladly destroy everything else in the country to prop up housin…

I live here in Toronto and it’s an absolute dumpster fire. The country is increasingly becoming hollowed out and residential investments are increasing as a % of total investments. In addition, there is no plan for prosperity. GDP per capita has been stagnant or negative and the productivity numbers are weak. The housing sector is becoming a giant leech sucking the life of out of productive investment. Engineers have…

I live about four hours due south of you and loved visiting Toronto as a kid. I had seen similar commentary recently about the real-estate market and thought folks were exaggerating. From what I could see, they weren't. Just now I was going to make a joke about the long game being in Nunavut but checked my work first and, uhh, nope. That's some crazy shit. $600k for a (nice) 5br on a half acre in the tundra? No thanks.

I know we look funny from up there but we do love y'all. My sister-in-law is from Guelph and lives in Ohio, we just accidentally bought matching F150's. So feel free to come down any time. The politics suck but the people are fine.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#22

Post by d3ntb3ev1l » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

riazrizvi wrote: post #2

The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory, because there is a massive amount of near 0% cash available to a thin slice of the population. So even though there are as many people as there were roughly a year ago, there are far fewer homes. Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. There is no strong political will to solve this problem, becaus…

Long term rentals will cease to exist when all this free money purchases convert directly to fuckin Airbnb’s

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#23

Post by htormey » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

mikeklaas wrote: post #19

cheriot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory Are you assuming that it's somehow sensible to buy property and leave it empty? Owner vs rental doesn't change the number of homes available.

It's sensible in San Francisco because having an active renter makes a property worth significantly less. Why? You basically cannot kick evict a renter or raise their rent.

Doesn’t that depend on the age of the building? I thought rent control was 1970s and earlier? That being said, SF is generally very tenant/sub tenant friendly in its laws.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#24

Post by eweise » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

Camillo wrote: post #4

riazrizvi wrote: post #2

The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory, because there is a massive amount of near 0% cash available to a thin slice of the population. So even though there are as many people as there were roughly a year ago, there are far fewer homes. Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. There is no strong political will to solve this problem, becaus…

Is it better to buy a home for investment than it is to buy stocks?

I think it can be initially but it decreases as you have more equity in home.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#25

Post by PragmaticPulp » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

cheriot wrote: post #17

riazrizvi wrote: post #2

The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory, because there is a massive amount of near 0% cash available to a thin slice of the population. So even though there are as many people as there were roughly a year ago, there are far fewer homes. Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. There is no strong political will to solve this problem, becaus…

> The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory Are you assuming that it's somehow sensible to buy property and leave it empty? Owner vs rental doesn't change the number of homes available.

Keeping it empty would remove it from the housing pool, driving rents up.

I think the comment is saying that investors are using cheap loans to buy up properties and rent them out. This increase the supply of rentals and drives rent prices down.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#26

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

mateo411 wrote: post #14

bcrosby95 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less of a problem because you can opt out of buying a home by renting. This is what happened back in the 00s and I know a lot of people that rented to opt out of the purchase market. Speaking personally, I rented a 3 bedroom home in Los Gatos for $2k/month, which was "valued" at around $1 million. The difference this time is its on top of huge increases in home prices and rents. So I think you wouldn't see that…

The article says that rents in SF are down. Housing prices are up. Anecdotally, almost everybody that I know that rents in the City has moved, because they were able to get a better deal.

[deleted]

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#27

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

hackeraccount wrote: post #10

That relationship - when purchase prices go up rents go down and vice versa has always seemed odd to me. When you think about it, it makes sense but you'd think most people wouldn't have the flexibility to move between renting and owning.

Mostly I agree with you but you might, if owning, choose to rent out your existing place and move somewhere cheaper?

Also, here in Austin, TX I know people who rent, who own properties that they rent out to others. It seems odd to me.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#28

Post by PragmaticPulp » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #3

riazrizvi wrote: post #2

The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory, because there is a massive amount of near 0% cash available to a thin slice of the population. So even though there are as many people as there were roughly a year ago, there are far fewer homes. Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. There is no strong political will to solve this problem, becaus…

>Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. Shouldn't the decrease in homes to purchase increase the demand for rentals?

I read it as the homes were being purchased by landlords, increasing the supply of rentals

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#29

Post by enahs-sf » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

htormey wrote: post #23

mikeklaas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sensible in San Francisco because having an active renter makes a property worth significantly less. Why? You basically cannot kick evict a renter or raise their rent.

Doesn’t that depend on the age of the building? I thought rent control was 1970s and earlier? That being said, SF is generally very tenant/sub tenant friendly in its laws.

Even still, landlords fear legal repercussions so much that they're willing to let a lot slide. When I moved out of my SF apartment, a plant I had had damaged the floor and my landlord was willing to eat the cost provided we moved out swiftly. Replacing the floors probably set him back a couple grand, but evicting tenants could be far more expensive.

Re: Asking rents in San Francisco continue to slip, but…

#30

Post by treeman79 » Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #3

riazrizvi wrote: post #2

The systemic problem is that investors are buying up residential property inventory, because there is a massive amount of near 0% cash available to a thin slice of the population. So even though there are as many people as there were roughly a year ago, there are far fewer homes. Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. There is no strong political will to solve this problem, becaus…

>Hence purchase prices are rocketing up and rental prices are drifting down. Shouldn't the decrease in homes to purchase increase the demand for rentals?

Don’t forget mega rental companies. They but thousands of homes, then rent them out. All with minimal possible repairs and no regards to safety.