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Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#21

Post by DennisP »

rhema wrote: post #5

Can someone who knows more about Eth tell me if this staking is a 100% guaranteed to happen? Is there a chance that miners rebel or a fork is made?

It's pretty much guaranteed at this point. The staking network has been running since Dec. 1, with over 3% of all ETH staked so far. The initial migration is simple to implement and a high priority for the devs. Community support is very high, and once everybody switches to the new fork the miners have no influence.

The miners could keep running the old PoW chain but it's unlikely to have significant value. Exchanges will support the PoS chain and some are already offering staking services. Tokens collateralized by off-chain assets will use the PoS chain. Etc.

With the PoW chain having little value, miners will be deeply unprofitable and most of them will have to quit. Moving to other chains isn't much of an option because other GPU chains have little aggregate value.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#22

Post by SwagtimusPrime »

j_walter wrote: post #10
paulpauper wrote: post #3

Etherscan.io shows all the transactions being POW. When will we start seeing POS transactions?

Until ETH2.0 comes online you won't see it...it will be at least another 18-24 months till the transition is completed.

there is in fact a fast-merge proposal that has community & dev support with a preemptive date of October 2021, if we're conservative February 2022. Once the merge happened PoW will be shut down and all transactions will be validated by the Proof of Stake consensus.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#24

Post by TacoToni »

tobltobs wrote: post #11
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #4

Staking requires putting aside 32 ETH for something around 2 years. That's a tad prohibitive at current prices.

You may earn up to 7.8% APR (currently) on your stake.

if staking with a pool. if you run your own validator you currently receive about 7.8%

https://launchpad.ethereum.org/en/

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#25

Post by SwagtimusPrime »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #7
asaph wrote: post #2

> More sustainable > Validators don’t need energy-intensive computers in order to participate in a proof-of-stake system – just a laptop or smart phone. This will make Ethereum better for the environment. To me, this is the biggest win of proof-of-stake over proof-of-work.

Agreed. However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. I like how Monero's RandomX is designed to level the playing field: ASIC miners don't significantly improve over CPU mining so more people can participate in mining. Of course, this doesn't address pools, but it is…

>However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization.

where is the difference to mining? To mine you need GPUs and electricity which you can equate to $$$, just like capital you lock up under PoS. it effectively makes no difference.

and everyone earns the same percentages, whales only earn more in absolute terms.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#26

Post by SwagtimusPrime »

capableweb wrote: post #20
SavantIdiot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. I like how Monero's RandomX is designed to level the playing field: ASIC miners don't significantly improve over CPU mining so more people can participate in mining. Of course, this doesn't address pools, but it is…

> Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. Hopefully it won't be too bad. Here you can see the current involvement from different parties in the beacon chain https://beaconcha.in/charts Currently "others" is ~52%, Kraken is 2nd with ~17% I'm trying to understand a similar graph for Cardano (another PoS chain), but not sure I ca…

it's also important to note that stakers can not withdraw yet. once withdrawal functionality is enabled I expect many more folks to stake their ETH because the uncertainty will be gone.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#27

Post by melolife »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #7
asaph wrote: post #2

> More sustainable > Validators don’t need energy-intensive computers in order to participate in a proof-of-stake system – just a laptop or smart phone. This will make Ethereum better for the environment. To me, this is the biggest win of proof-of-stake over proof-of-work.

Agreed. However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. I like how Monero's RandomX is designed to level the playing field: ASIC miners don't significantly improve over CPU mining so more people can participate in mining. Of course, this doesn't address pools, but it is…

I would argue that under both proof of stake and mining your income is always directly proportional to the amount invested, either in equipment or stake.

The main difference is the minimum barrier to entry, however under PoS you have access to various pooling services, which simulate consumer scale mining (complete with the associated inefficiency).

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#29

Post by antocv »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #14
antocv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miners will rebel and continue mining, some will mine on an ETH fork and others switch to other coins. GPUs will not be returned to gamers anytime soon.

Theoretically the ETH PoW fork will drop in value relative to the original ETH. That would decrease the mining reward and result in less mining (and more GPUs returned to gamers).

You cant kill a PoW chain, see Dogecoin. Sad but it is what it is.
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