Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#21

Post by weird-eye-issue » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Seems crazy to me. Sure, all their content won't always be available to purchase. But once you've purchased something, how can that not always stay in your library? It is just a long term rental, not a purchase, if it can disappear and that isn't obvious to anybody without looking into it (and how should you know to look into it in the first place?)

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#22

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #10

ryandrake wrote: post #7

Wow, $25K and he did not have download access to a single bit. That's insane! I hope this goes to trial and sets a precedent. The word "buy" is extremely misleading when it comes to cloud content. Never buy anything that the manufacturer is allowed to later repossess or deny your access to!

They should just force all these vendors to relabel those buttons to "Rent" or equivalent.

Then I expect to pay considerably less though.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#23

Post by bityard » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat:

1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract just because you discover you don't like the terms later on. (Whether or not you actually read it before agreeing to it.)

2. Apple and the class action attorneys will settle this out of court. Apple will pay the attorney fees and reimburse the lead class member for the value of the media he "purchased". Everyone else who joined the class action as a member will get a $5 credit to their Apple account.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#24

Post by dukoid » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

tareqak wrote: post #8

I think Apple and Amazon (an Amazon lawsuit is linked inside the article) will argue that they are similar to video rental stores like Blockbuster back when it was in business. However, Blockbuster did have physical copies of movies available to purchase in the form of VHS, and DVDs so I would argue that Blockbuster calling itself a store was still alright even though it might have done more business in rentals. I’m…

I think the long term outcome will be some sort of account "locking" where the account becomes purely passive

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#25

Post by l-lousy » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

tareqak wrote: post #8

I think Apple and Amazon (an Amazon lawsuit is linked inside the article) will argue that they are similar to video rental stores like Blockbuster back when it was in business. However, Blockbuster did have physical copies of movies available to purchase in the form of VHS, and DVDs so I would argue that Blockbuster calling itself a store was still alright even though it might have done more business in rentals. I’m…

I think the main problem is that because the conditions of the rental are not known at the time that you make a purchase (accounts can be terminated at any time for any reason) you can’t call it rental or buying really.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#26

Post by mc32 » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Historically media has had a limited play-life. 78s, 45s and 33 warped, broke or got scratched, etc., tapes wore out, broke, got tangled etc., CDs scratched or deteriorated after some time. There are exceptional specimens for all the above, but a good number don’t survive long unless owned by an aficionado who took care of their media.

With digital you can have backups and in theory they could last forever as you convert the format into whatever is popular.

How do they price this? Do they not do CRCs and hashes and let your bits rot over time and have you buy a new one? How do you approach this commercially? Make music or video very, very faddish so even if it lasts forever no one will want to listen to or watch something out of style ten yeas hence?

I’m not defending Apple. I’m asking how do you price things reasonably if they potentially last forever?

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#27

Post by black_puppydog » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

> class-action lawsuits over the meaning of the words “rent” and “buy.”

Ohhhhh this is great news! This has been a personal soap box of mine for years and years.

I really hope that the outcome will be that going forward at least, these words won't be used lightly anymore for risk of false advertising lawsuits. That should take care of a bunch of the "just rent it" business models that on second thought aren't really what the customer wanted at all. Well, I may be wrong about it. Maybe the world really doesn't care. In which case, at least language will be re-joined with reality in this case.

Edit: and at the risk of starting a fire here, this might also call into question some practices by the likes of Tesla and John Deere

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#28

Post by DigitallyFidget » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Amazon argues the same exact thing if you buy a movie digitally from them. It's only available to you for as long as they host it on their servers. This is why I pirate shit that I can't find on Netflix or Prime Video. Buying digital content is merely "long term rental" and really needs to be better advertised as that.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#29

Post by mrweasel » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #4

realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Really surprised to see Apple taking this approach. You'd think they could have come up with something less offensive to their users. This is the exact same line Sidney Powell is using in her defense against Dominion: "'No Reasonable Person' Thought Her Election Fraud Claims Were Fact" [0]. Amused but not surprised to see this from her, I am quite aghast to see this from Apple. The fact is, just like any reasonable p…

You’re right that’s honestly a shitty way for Apple to make a counter argument. I suspect that a large number of Apple customers would see a purchase of a movie on iTunes as equivalent to buying a BluRay or DVD (the price would certainly indicate it), and now Apple is calling them unreasonable.

Apples legal team also seems forget that their customers expect them to behave better than the industry in general. No reasonable person would expect Apple to deny a loyal customer access to previous purchases.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#30

Post by l-lousy » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #10

ryandrake wrote: post #7

Wow, $25K and he did not have download access to a single bit. That's insane! I hope this goes to trial and sets a precedent. The word "buy" is extremely misleading when it comes to cloud content. Never buy anything that the manufacturer is allowed to later repossess or deny your access to!

They should just force all these vendors to relabel those buttons to "Rent" or equivalent.

Change it to “rent” or give the option to download. You can’t have a contract where the terms change at any time for any reason (apples account termination policy)