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Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

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Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#21

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #14
rawtxapp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, it just means big centralized companies are settling their end-users funds on the blockchain while providing them access to it practically free. Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. And soon enough channel factories should make it possible to create multiple lightning channels at once, so an end-user will never pay the whole channel opening fee by themselves. As…

> Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. So people are using Bitcoin through trusted (in the security sense[1]) intermediaries. These intermediaries are basically banks, no? Aren't they subject to all the same bad incentives as a "traditional" bank? Except their deposit are (probably?) not insured against loss. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_third_party > 'Trusted'…

[deleted]

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#22

Post by rawtxapp »

noxer wrote: post #19
rawtxapp wrote: post #4

That's because you're looking at it in terms of USD, when you look at it in terms of satoshis per byte, it's actually much lower [1][3]. And if you want to avoid the fees because you expect to transact a lot, just use lightning network, exchanges are starting to integrate it[2]. edit: I should also add that, when you look at it in terms of USD, the average transaction fee is a drop in the bucket compared to the avera…

I knew this would be posted. Such an absurdly stupid reasoning. You wanna pay for your coffee or buy car or whatever and the fee is slapped on top of the price. Who the heck would care about satishis per byte. Its % of the transacted value that matters. High fees means low value Tx are no longer "possible". >which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected. So it went from p2p cash to store of val…

In 10 years from now, everyone would have easy to use/intuitive lightning network wallets and all exchanges would have integrated it.

Again, no need to keep track of every coffee transaction permanently forever on the blockchain, it's just not efficient.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#23

Post by gruez »

haolez wrote: post #16

I wonder what would happen with bigger blocks besides making the blockchain use more disk space. We have BCH and BSV to compare, but not in BTC's scale, I believe.

initially? lower fees. eventually it will be offset by the induced demand and we'll be back to square one.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#24

Post by this_user »

noxer wrote: post #19
rawtxapp wrote: post #4

That's because you're looking at it in terms of USD, when you look at it in terms of satoshis per byte, it's actually much lower [1][3]. And if you want to avoid the fees because you expect to transact a lot, just use lightning network, exchanges are starting to integrate it[2]. edit: I should also add that, when you look at it in terms of USD, the average transaction fee is a drop in the bucket compared to the avera…

I knew this would be posted. Such an absurdly stupid reasoning. You wanna pay for your coffee or buy car or whatever and the fee is slapped on top of the price. Who the heck would care about satishis per byte. Its % of the transacted value that matters. High fees means low value Tx are no longer "possible". >which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected. So it went from p2p cash to store of val…

The conundrum at the heart of BTC is that you have to introduce a second layer in order to work around the inherent limitations of the first. But at that point you may as well do away with that first layer, and then will have simply re-invented PayPay, which only goes to show how "blockchain technology" is almost entirely useless.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#25

Post by the_local_host »

rawtxapp wrote: post #22
noxer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this would be posted. Such an absurdly stupid reasoning. You wanna pay for your coffee or buy car or whatever and the fee is slapped on top of the price. Who the heck would care about satishis per byte. Its % of the transacted value that matters. High fees means low value Tx are no longer "possible". >which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected. So it went from p2p cash to store of val…

In 10 years from now, everyone would have easy to use/intuitive lightning network wallets and all exchanges would have integrated it. Again, no need to keep track of every coffee transaction permanently forever on the blockchain, it's just not efficient.

Why bother settling on the blockchain at all? The second-layer transactions could just float, like the dollar separated from the gold standard.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#26

Post by gruez »

dmm wrote: post #2

What happened in 2017? What's happening now? Is it related to miners being shutdown in China?

transaction volume went up. the date roughly corresponds to the last peak of ~20k. high prices/volatility means more people rushing to transfer their coins in/out of exchanges.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#27

Post by swinglock »

ahelwer wrote: post #7
swinglock wrote: post #5

This is the consequence of the sudden loss of mining power. The increased usage of Bitcoin transactions while the blockchain is now processing fewer transactions means the fees increase, because users are willing to pay that much to transact faster. Ideally market powers would offset this by people with spare CPU time beginning to mine to pick up the slack, since profitability is up. However due to the development of…

Here's a gap in my understanding: why does bitcoin mining explode so much when the price goes up? With all the new miners, doesn't the difficulty adjustment kick in after two weeks and largely negate the price increase? Or does the difficulty scaling not quite work like that?

The difficulty is what adjusts the distributed time function of the network to stay on target, so that the inflation is controlled, measured in Bitcoins. The Bitcoin network only knows about Bitcoins, not how much USD it trades for.

When the blocks being mined approximately every 10 minutes is valued higher in USD, naturally more people want more of those blocks. So the miners expand simply to compete, since what they compete for is worth more.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#28

Post by gruez »

this_user wrote: post #24
noxer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this would be posted. Such an absurdly stupid reasoning. You wanna pay for your coffee or buy car or whatever and the fee is slapped on top of the price. Who the heck would care about satishis per byte. Its % of the transacted value that matters. High fees means low value Tx are no longer "possible". >which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected. So it went from p2p cash to store of val…

The conundrum at the heart of BTC is that you have to introduce a second layer in order to work around the inherent limitations of the first. But at that point you may as well do away with that first layer, and then will have simply re-invented PayPay, which only goes to show how "blockchain technology" is almost entirely useless.

>But at that point you may as well do away with that first layer, and then will have simply re-invented PayPay, which only goes to show how "blockchain technology" is almost entirely useless.

the lightning network isn't going to freeze your funds for 180 days because they think your account is suspicious.

Re: Avg. Transaction Fee of Bitcoin Surpassed the Peak from 2017

#30

Post by AlexandrB »

rawtxapp wrote: post #13
AlexandrB wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a long-time bitcoin skeptic, and I don't really understand the lightning network. If the lightning network doesn't depend on PoW for every transaction then how is it different than a normal database-backed payment network? I read that it involves smart contracts, have those been sufficiently audited against bugs? > That's because you're looking at it in terms of USD, when you look at it in terms of satoshis per b…

A transaction is essentially just a signed cryptographic message broadcast to the network, just imagine that instead of broadcasting it, you keep iterating on it, you pass funds around, keep signing these messages, etc. There are measures to make sure you don't broadcast an old/outdated transaction to the network. It's not meant for buying coffee, for those you would use layer 2 or centralized entities like Paypal, e…

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I guess I remain skeptical as it seems like a lot of complexity that is slowly replicating the traditional banking system - just with transactions enumerated in a volatile equity instead of $currency. Perhaps I'm just getting old.
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