EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls • Hacker News Board

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#21

Post by detaro » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #8

throwaway10110 wrote: post #2

To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ and there is a sizeable chunk of people who are refusing AZ (my own elderly parents and their siblings really scared now and in despair) due to issues recently highlighted (dont shoot messenger, imho risks are small but i can see why some might be hesitant when alternatives are/will be available) I say t…

I'm still waiting too see long term effects of all adenovirus based vaccines. I'm kinda estimating there to be an increased risk of strokes overall. But I'm constantly baffled at Germany's vaccine response. Remember that Pfizer's vaccine is developed by the German company and that the president of the European commission used to be Germany's Minister of Family/Labour and Defense. But in a way that's a result of their…

Where it was invented is totally irrelevant to public discourse outside the UK.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#22

Post by junippor » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

jarmitage wrote: post #12

junippor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know any details, but my understanding if that manufacturing vaccines is quite difficult.

Me neither, but I find it hard to believe that it is more difficult than remaining stuck in the pandemic.

The manufacturing process is a matter of precision engineering. "Remaining stuck" is just... psychologically difficult? How do you compare which one is "more difficult"?

Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#23

Post by throw-8462682 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #8

throwaway10110 wrote: post #2

To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ and there is a sizeable chunk of people who are refusing AZ (my own elderly parents and their siblings really scared now and in despair) due to issues recently highlighted (dont shoot messenger, imho risks are small but i can see why some might be hesitant when alternatives are/will be available) I say t…

I'm still waiting too see long term effects of all adenovirus based vaccines. I'm kinda estimating there to be an increased risk of strokes overall. But I'm constantly baffled at Germany's vaccine response. Remember that Pfizer's vaccine is developed by the German company and that the president of the European commission used to be Germany's Minister of Family/Labour and Defense. But in a way that's a result of their…

Adenovirus vaccines are extremely common. You must be anti vax?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#24

Post by quonn » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:42 AM UTC

jarmitage wrote: post #12

junippor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know any details, but my understanding if that manufacturing vaccines is quite difficult.

Me neither, but I find it hard to believe that it is more difficult than remaining stuck in the pandemic.

As far as I know, Germany helped BioNtech with their new plant but even then it took at least half a year to get that going. And that was despite the fact that they could buy and adapt it instead of building it from scratch.

For example, in software, maybe it takes a single developer a year to build a compiler for some advanced language and we can speed it up to 3 months by adding some people. But could we get to a week by adding 12x more? We can‘t and it may be the same with vaccine production.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#25

Post by JI00912 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:43 AM UTC

> the point of the legal proceedings is to make it mandatory for AstraZeneca to provide the doses set out in its EU contract

The point of a contract is always that fulfilling the contract is mandatory.

That said, legal proceedings won't make anything go faster any more than other attempts at what sounds like plan economy.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#26

Post by jarmitage » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

Dumbdo wrote: post #17

jarmitage wrote: post #4

Does anyone know why all of the geopolitical discourse in the UK and Europe has been around arguing over a small supply, rather than about increasing manufacturing capacity?

Where do you get that from? There's a huge effort to scale up the production up, which you can see by the weekly increasing output for example of Biontech [0]. Discussing one thing doesn't exclude taking care of another. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-bionte...

Nowhere in particular. Perhaps my sentiment is more a reflection of media coverage focusing on issues like TFA, rather than on increasing supply which is less scandalous.

Thanks for this link. I would much rather that the media kept me up to date on this instead!

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#27

Post by throwaway10110 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

jpxw wrote: post #11

throwaway10110 wrote: post #2

To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ and there is a sizeable chunk of people who are refusing AZ (my own elderly parents and their siblings really scared now and in despair) due to issues recently highlighted (dont shoot messenger, imho risks are small but i can see why some might be hesitant when alternatives are/will be available) I say t…

In my opinion, the media and European politicians are responsible for this vaccine skepticism. You reap what you sow. The politicians banned the vaccine despite there not being scientific evidence to suggest that was a reasonable choice. The media in Europe hyped this up massively. In the UK, neither of these things happened, and despite there being some degree of skepticism, the vast majority of people are still wil…

Under 30s in UK are not recommended AZ jab

Its same in other countries ranging from no restriction to restriction being to anything up to under 60s

not recommended is not same as "banned" stop reading UK tabloids.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#28

Post by corty » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

detaro wrote: post #10

throwaway10110 wrote: post #2

To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ and there is a sizeable chunk of people who are refusing AZ (my own elderly parents and their siblings really scared now and in despair) due to issues recently highlighted (dont shoot messenger, imho risks are small but i can see why some might be hesitant when alternatives are/will be available) I say t…

It's split: Hesitation is for sure here, on the other hand plenty people in age ranges its not recommended for here decide to get it anyways. (Here in Germany its not recommended for <60, but not forbidden to be used)

Yes, but if anything should happen to you because of a non-recommended vaccine you are on your own for treatment and disability pay.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#29

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

[deleted]

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#30

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

There are a couple, Moderna, Pfizer/Biontech, Johnson&Johnson, AZ and Curevac (soon to be approved as it seems). AZ is the cheapest one (Oxford has them selling at cost so far) and was seen as the most promising last summer.

AZ is getting a shit loaf of bad press, so everything AZ related is "news".

All vaccines are effective and working, Pfizer as well as AZ.