Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

signal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 352 posts

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#21

Post by upofadown »

po wrote: post #7

This is truly a hacker’s retort. It attacks Cellebrite's ability to operate by casting doubt on the reports generated by the product that their customers may wish to use in court. It places them in legal peril from Apple, and removes any cover Apple would have to not take legal action. (I assume someone at Apple knew they were shipping their DLLs?) It makes a thinly-veiled threat that any random Signal user's data ma…

I really seriously doubt that anyone would ever advance the idea that Signal had deliberately framed them by creating false data on their phone. I don't see this as much more than pointing out that Cellebrite has vulnerabilities, just like the ones they exploit.

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#22

Post by kbenson »

tony101 wrote: post #4
paddlesteamer wrote: post #3

> In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage. These files are never used for anything inside Signal and never interact with Signal software or data, but they look nice, and aesthetics are important in software. I wish I could see those files in action...

I wonder if the intention here is to deter Cellebrite from parsing Signal files? Or to pressure them into fixing their security vulnerabilities?

Files will only be returned for accounts that have been active installs for some time already, and only probabilistically in low percentages based on phone number sharding. We have a few different versions of files that we think are aesthetically pleasing, and will iterate through those slowly over time.

Pretty sure it's the former, since the above is a way to ensure that Cellebrite can't just gather all implied exploit files and make sure they've got those specific problems all patched. This is, quite literally, an informational attempt at guerilla/asymmetric warfare, where Signal is trying to make engaging with them too costly, while also making a few blows quite a bit above their weight level. Cellebrite now has to decide whether to keep after this adversary that both is hard to pin down, ambushes them, and has shown it can hit them really hard where it matters (credibility, and thus their pocket book).

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#24

Post by NullPrefix »

sitzkrieg wrote: post #18

i find it remarkably unbelievable someone would put a cellebrite bag in the back of a truck given the price alone.. and the timing too. sure

I bet the tool was bought from a supplier but Signal team can't disclose it because source protection.

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#25

Post by ampdepolymerase »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #12
po wrote: post #7

This is truly a hacker’s retort. It attacks Cellebrite's ability to operate by casting doubt on the reports generated by the product that their customers may wish to use in court. It places them in legal peril from Apple, and removes any cover Apple would have to not take legal action. (I assume someone at Apple knew they were shipping their DLLs?) It makes a thinly-veiled threat that any random Signal user's data ma…

All that trouble becaused a bag conveniently "fell from a truck". All in all I'm really happy for all this.

Indeed, how convenient. If it truly did fall off the truck right while he is on a walk then there is the possibility that is a rubber duckie attack. This is basically the equivalent of leaving a USB flash drive lying around. I hope the author took the necessary precautions when reverse engineering the device. Companies like cellebrite have deep connections to certain three letter communities that staging this sort of attacks trivial.

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#27

Post by marcopet »

sitzkrieg wrote: post #18

i find it remarkably unbelievable someone would put a cellebrite bag in the back of a truck given the price alone.. and the timing too. sure

"fell off the back of a truck" is an idiom [1]. It's not meant literally.

[1] https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fell-off-the-back-of-a-t...

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#28

Post by redleader55 »

choppaface wrote: post #16
Nextgrid wrote: post #6

So I wonder, why disclose this? This will just prompt Cellebrite to improve its security process and sandbox the entire tool. If they wanted to destroy the credibility of the tool, using the vulnerabilities to silently tamper with the collected data or even leaking it online would be a much better option and hit them without any warning, not only jeopardizing those cases but forever casting doubt on not just Cellebri…

The public disclosure about the Apple DLLs could potentially be used to drag Apple into any legal case between somebody versus Cellebrite. The disclosure needs to be public versus private or under seal or whatever to absolve the Cellebrite counterparty of any liability from reverse engineering. Suddenly Apple is now in potential collusion with Cellebrite. Or maybe not. This public disclosure makes the threat of Disco…

I think they mention Apple in an attempt to force them to defend their copyright, else they risk losing it.

I assume Apple will choose to file for copyright infringement than risk being accused of collusion and lose the copyright on that iTunes or parts of it.

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#29

Post by ampdepolymerase »

marcopet wrote: post #27
sitzkrieg wrote: post #18

i find it remarkably unbelievable someone would put a cellebrite bag in the back of a truck given the price alone.. and the timing too. sure

"fell off the back of a truck" is an idiom [1]. It's not meant literally. [1] https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fell-off-the-back-of-a-t...

It's like "a little bird told me".

Re: Exploiting vulnerabilities in Cellebrite UFED and Physical Analyzer

#30

Post by CPLX »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #25
ASalazarMX wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that trouble becaused a bag conveniently "fell from a truck". All in all I'm really happy for all this.

Indeed, how convenient . If it truly did fall off the truck right while he is on a walk then there is the possibility that is a rubber duckie attack. This is basically the equivalent of leaving a USB flash drive lying around. I hope the author took the necessary precautions when reverse engineering the device. Companies like cellebrite have deep connections to certain three letter communities that staging this sort o…

> If it truly did fall of the truck

lol

Post reply on HN