I'm similarly curious about the legality of using screenshots.
Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
21–30 of 48 posts
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#22It is most likely not legal. The user owns copyright to the article or story that he wrote. This ownership of copyright gives the user the right to decide how it is distributed. For you to use the material legally, you must get permission of the copyright holder. The user may be the copyright holder, or the site may be if the user transfers the ownership. Either way, someone owns the copyright and it is not you. You…
It is not true that commercial purpose precludes a fair use defense. From wikipedia:
"While commercial copying for profit work may make it harder to qualify as fair use, it does not make it impossible."
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Woah, that is seriously not correct advice. Was your lawyer even a copyright lawyer?
Yeah, I'm not sure "chicken, $10" can be copyrighted. The image of a menu might be a problem, but the text? Not to mention his lawyer may have been giving practical advice (hopefully acknowledged as such): what restaurant would really argue with their menu being available?
Isn't there a defense for factual information? The fact that a particular restaurant sells chicken for $10 cannot be copyrighted. The look and feel of their menu (like, the squiggly decorations, the font, the layout) can be copyrighted.
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm not sure "chicken, $10" can be copyrighted. The image of a menu might be a problem, but the text? Not to mention his lawyer may have been giving practical advice (hopefully acknowledged as such): what restaurant would really argue with their menu being available?
Isn't there a defense for factual information? The fact that a particular restaurant sells chicken for $10 cannot be copyrighted. The look and feel of their menu (like, the squiggly decorations, the font, the layout) can be copyrighted.
Thats what I was thinking. A phone directory can't be copyrighted. Stealing the database is a crime though. I think thats what the original question was really about: How far can he go?
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm not sure "chicken, $10" can be copyrighted. The image of a menu might be a problem, but the text? Not to mention his lawyer may have been giving practical advice (hopefully acknowledged as such): what restaurant would really argue with their menu being available?
Isn't there a defense for factual information? The fact that a particular restaurant sells chicken for $10 cannot be copyrighted. The look and feel of their menu (like, the squiggly decorations, the font, the layout) can be copyrighted.
Exactly. If all menus were just "BLT, $5", "Hamburger with tomatoes, lettuce, and onions, $6" then you could make the analogy.
However, compare "basic facts" with an example from the menu from my favourite restaurant (www.chachachar.com.au) (and an example of fair use!):
"Eye Fillet Age 28-36 mths old Lean with sweet, clean, toasty flavours Served with truffled mash potato, salad of grilled pear & pancetta with smoked tomato relish
Hereford sourced from fertile pastures of NSW raised on Cattle Care accredited properties that are managed under stringent quality & environmental systems and are finished on feedlots in Jindalee."
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't there a defense for factual information? The fact that a particular restaurant sells chicken for $10 cannot be copyrighted. The look and feel of their menu (like, the squiggly decorations, the font, the layout) can be copyrighted.
Thats what I was thinking. A phone directory can't be copyrighted. Stealing the database is a crime though. I think thats what the original question was really about: How far can he go?
It's a sticky area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#27Google does it, as do vertical search companies like Indeed and SimplyHired, so it's certainly legal under some conditions. Taking only a snippet and linking back to the source is generally okay (as the original publisher benefits from traffic and SEO juice).
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
We consulted a copyright lawyer, but I never moved forward with this, so did not really did too deep. I've noticed there are plenty of menu services that take this same approach.. just do a google search and you will see there are many guides putting menus online without a license from the restaurant. What am I missing?
They are not 'open in the public domain' nor can they be treated as 'public property'. Somebody wrote those menus from scratch and as such they own the copyright. If you wanted to take an excerpt from the menu and comment on it, then that is fair use. When reproducing it in full, they technically can request you remove it, or any of the other avenues for restitution copyright law affords. Most won't because it benefi…
I actually think it may be more of a gray area than you think, read the description of Public domain here: http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/ - then think about how restaurants use their content when distributing to-go menus, advertising, etc, etc.
So, I called my friend who does have a menu service. His lawyer told him that case law may support the content of menus being public domain, but NOT the trademarks (like logos).
More important, he says, is the business issue. That is, the restaurant (or as it applies to this thread, the content owner) must PROVE that damages were caused by you, in order to take legal action.
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#29It is most likely not legal. The user owns copyright to the article or story that he wrote. This ownership of copyright gives the user the right to decide how it is distributed. For you to use the material legally, you must get permission of the copyright holder. The user may be the copyright holder, or the site may be if the user transfers the ownership. Either way, someone owns the copyright and it is not you. You…
It is not true that commercial purpose precludes a fair use defense. From wikipedia: "While commercial copying for profit work may make it harder to qualify as fair use, it does not make it impossible." see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
In this case it does.
The use in the case you are referring to had several extra elements which prompted the court to not find copyright infringement.
2 Live Crew was fair use because their work was transformative. They took a beat and changed words to a Roy Orbison song. They did not blindy copy, as the question asker will be doing. They took the score, not the words.
The poster is taking the story, not quotes. His site is not transformative, and therefore his commercial use is not fair
Re: Ask HN: Legality of Web Scraping User-Submitted Content?
#30The real question is usually not "Is this legal" but rather "Will this get us sued". We do many "illegal" things like jaywalking all the time, but everyone with sense knows which things are truly illegal.