The Hotdog web browser and browser engine • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#21

Post by Daegalus » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 3:57 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #10

It's great to see yet another attempt at writing a web browser --- and I say this as someone who has been (slowly) working on one myself. The browser is far from stable, spec-compliant, or even really useful, but, I'm slowly working on bringing more features and supporting more sites. When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really th…

honestly, I have been toying with the idea of building a web browser project that has no JavaScript. just completely ignores the script tag or any JavaScript related things. like onclick, and other attributes.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#22

Post by marakv2 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

Daegalus wrote: post #21

userbinator wrote: post #10

It's great to see yet another attempt at writing a web browser --- and I say this as someone who has been (slowly) working on one myself. The browser is far from stable, spec-compliant, or even really useful, but, I'm slowly working on bringing more features and supporting more sites. When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really th…

honestly, I have been toying with the idea of building a web browser project that has no JavaScript. just completely ignores the script tag or any JavaScript related things. like onclick, and other attributes.

Really what did JavaScript bring us? (And there goes my points!)

I want to search for information and share information with people.

I don't want any more from the net. It feels like what we want is being surpassed by those who want to monetise us.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#23

Post by Santosh83 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

surround wrote: post #16

How come entire operating systems are able to be developed on community-supported efforts (like Debian) but browsers can only be developed by monoliths like Google and Apple (and Mozilla, which has ~750 employees and makes most of its money from Google)?

The only general purpose, open source operating system that can now compete with the commercial giants, Linux, is now mainly driven by corporate backed contributors. If all corporate backed efforts were to stop overnight, I doubt it could keep up with MacOS/Windows/Android with just community contributions.

The entire hardware/software industry is controlled by giants. Disrupting this can no longer be done by a group of hackers as it was possible in the late 80s and early 90s.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#24

Post by creshal » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #10

It's great to see yet another attempt at writing a web browser --- and I say this as someone who has been (slowly) working on one myself. The browser is far from stable, spec-compliant, or even really useful, but, I'm slowly working on bringing more features and supporting more sites. When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really th…

> When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really that important to follow them so closely...

The notion breaks as soon as your users want to use youtube or gmail, which for some mysterious reason keep insisting on using all these useless "standards" even though they have no benefit to the user.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#25

Post by vicda » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

marakv2 wrote: post #22

Daegalus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly, I have been toying with the idea of building a web browser project that has no JavaScript. just completely ignores the script tag or any JavaScript related things. like onclick, and other attributes.

Really what did JavaScript bring us? (And there goes my points!) I want to search for information and share information with people. I don't want any more from the net. It feels like what we want is being surpassed by those who want to monetise us.

Lightweight sandboxed applications in the browser. No admin password needed since there's nothing to install.

Sure it may be bloated overkill for something that could have just been a plain text file, but it is nice to have real time and interactive visualizations.

Plus it is nice to have the choice to use mobile websites instead of using the access hungry native apps.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#26

Post by Evidlo » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

CrazyCatDog wrote: post #9

Screenshots are LACED chalk-full of explicit vocabulary... https://raw.githubusercontent.com/danfragoso/thdwb/master/im...

That website gets posted here all the time as an example of lightweight HTML.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#27

Post by admax88q » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

vicda wrote: post #25

marakv2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really what did JavaScript bring us? (And there goes my points!) I want to search for information and share information with people. I don't want any more from the net. It feels like what we want is being surpassed by those who want to monetise us.

Lightweight sandboxed applications in the browser. No admin password needed since there's nothing to install. Sure it may be bloated overkill for something that could have just been a plain text file, but it is nice to have real time and interactive visualizations. Plus it is nice to have the choice to use mobile websites instead of using the access hungry native apps.

Figma, docs, sheets. All great apps I can use for any device with a web browser. No install needed, no updates needed. Easy to collaborate with. No "install this application" just "open this url"

Application delivery though the web browser is just hella convenient. It's really hard to give that up for some "native apps and static documents" utopian dream.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#28

Post by jetti » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #10

It's great to see yet another attempt at writing a web browser --- and I say this as someone who has been (slowly) working on one myself. The browser is far from stable, spec-compliant, or even really useful, but, I'm slowly working on bringing more features and supporting more sites. When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really th…

The way I see it is that for many people web applications have replaced their need for desktop applications while giving a somewhat comparable experience. I think it would be a very hard sell for the average user to want to use a "minimal browser" because it could mean giving up a lot of day to day functionality they rely on.

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#29

Post by swsieber » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:38 AM UTC

creshal wrote: post #24

userbinator wrote: post #10

It's great to see yet another attempt at writing a web browser --- and I say this as someone who has been (slowly) working on one myself. The browser is far from stable, spec-compliant, or even really useful, but, I'm slowly working on bringing more features and supporting more sites. When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really th…

> When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really that important to follow them so closely... The notion breaks as soon as your users want to use youtube or gmail, which for some mysterious reason keep insisting on using all these useless "standards" even though they have no benefit to the user.

Youtube and gmail will mysteriously break for people on Firefox too, so it's not that much worse.

/sarcasm (sort of...)

Re: The Hotdog web browser and browser engine

#30

Post by csande17 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

Santosh83 wrote: post #23

surround wrote: post #16

How come entire operating systems are able to be developed on community-supported efforts (like Debian) but browsers can only be developed by monoliths like Google and Apple (and Mozilla, which has ~750 employees and makes most of its money from Google)?

The only general purpose, open source operating system that can now compete with the commercial giants, Linux, is now mainly driven by corporate backed contributors. If all corporate backed efforts were to stop overnight, I doubt it could keep up with MacOS/Windows/Android with just community contributions. The entire hardware/software industry is controlled by giants. Disrupting this can no longer be done by a group…

What's there to "keep up with"? UI-wise, desktop operating systems have been pretty much stagnant for a decade, and software-compatibility-wise, people already weren't expecting Linux to run all their newfangled commercial software.