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Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

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Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#21

Post by xxpor »

parenthesis wrote: post #9
sebau wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Exactly what I think every time I see our cities here in France.

Fair enough if you don't like Brutalism, but please tell me that you have at least as much dislike for some of the abombinations that have replaced some brutalist buildings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Library_of_Birmingham_(32... https://stjamesquarter.com/

The problem with him aren't the buildings themselves so much IMO. It's his "towers in a park" style. It's like he never actually lived in a city before. You want things to be walkable. Instead, you end up with huge buildings with nothing in between. You get all of the downsides of density with none of the upsides.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#22

Post by drno123 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #3

Le Corbusier had one of the most impactful influence on the so-called modern architecture of the post-war period. He initiated a school of borderline religious and dogmatic followers who are still active this day. The existence of Le Corbusier and his school is, in my opinion, the worst thing that happened to architecture, ever. We're still paying his mistakes.

Thank you for saying what many people think, myself included. I was ridiculed many times by architects when I said something similar. Architects should create buildings that ordinary people find beautiful, not ugly, and then claim that people are stupid and do not understand architecture.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#23

Post by stephc_int13 »

xxpor wrote: post #21
parenthesis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough if you don't like Brutalism, but please tell me that you have at least as much dislike for some of the abombinations that have replaced some brutalist buildings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Library_of_Birmingham_(32... https://stjamesquarter.com/

The problem with him aren't the buildings themselves so much IMO. It's his "towers in a park" style. It's like he never actually lived in a city before. You want things to be walkable. Instead, you end up with huge buildings with nothing in between. You get all of the downsides of density with none of the upsides.

He was against the concept of street. Light was more important than people.

In fact, many of the proponents of this school of thought are going as far as considering that the constraint of having people living in their space is a hindrance preventing them to fully express their ideas.

Architecture is Politics, and Le Corbusier is embodying the worst ideas of the 20th century.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#24

Post by stephc_int13 »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #7
stephc_int13 wrote: post #3

Le Corbusier had one of the most impactful influence on the so-called modern architecture of the post-war period. He initiated a school of borderline religious and dogmatic followers who are still active this day. The existence of Le Corbusier and his school is, in my opinion, the worst thing that happened to architecture, ever. We're still paying his mistakes.

If I had a time machine...

Oh yeah, he would be on the list.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#25

Post by einpoklum »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #23
xxpor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with him aren't the buildings themselves so much IMO. It's his "towers in a park" style. It's like he never actually lived in a city before. You want things to be walkable. Instead, you end up with huge buildings with nothing in between. You get all of the downsides of density with none of the upsides.

He was against the concept of street. Light was more important than people. In fact, many of the proponents of this school of thought are going as far as considering that the constraint of having people living in their space is a hindrance preventing them to fully express their ideas. Architecture is Politics, and Le Corbusier is embodying the worst ideas of the 20th century.

I would upvote most of your answer, but your last sentence is somewhat overstated. Remember the worst ideas of the 20th century and how many people they killed.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#26

Post by stephc_int13 »

adamjb wrote: post #15
simonsarris wrote: post #14

> His view of life was moral. He was loyal to mathematics, to order, to living the life he thought worth living. Le Corbusier dreamed of "cleaning and purging cities of disorder" with "calm and powerful architecture." (his words) His plan for Paris was never realized, though his ideals are apparent internationally, unfortunately. He was addicted to a certain kind of untested, abstract knowledge. I tried to articulate…

FWIW the one opportunity he got to execute on his ideas on a city scale (Chandigarh), it turned out fine. > Le Corbusier dreamed of "cleaning and purging cities of disorder" with "calm and powerful architecture." (his words) His plan for Paris was never realized I can't help but point out that today's Paris is very much the product of a 19th C. rationalisation with broadly similar motivations and goals (including a d…

There is a huge difference between the Haussmann's renovation of Paris and the ideas of Le Corbusier.

The goal of Haussmann was not to abolish everything that had been discovered and learnt by architects and city planners during the centuries before him, but instead to modernize and get rid of the obviously impractical designs.

Pretty much like refactoring an old and messy code-base.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#27

Post by stephc_int13 »

einpoklum wrote: post #25
stephc_int13 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was against the concept of street. Light was more important than people. In fact, many of the proponents of this school of thought are going as far as considering that the constraint of having people living in their space is a hindrance preventing them to fully express their ideas. Architecture is Politics, and Le Corbusier is embodying the worst ideas of the 20th century.

I would upvote most of your answer, but your last sentence is somewhat overstated. Remember the worst ideas of the 20th century and how many people they killed.

Yes, I am talking about the same ideas, the different flavors of 20th century totalitarism, in my opinion Le Corbusier was operating in the same vein.

Also he had well documented sympathies for the Nazi regime.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#28

Post by pembrook »

simonsarris wrote: post #14

> His view of life was moral. He was loyal to mathematics, to order, to living the life he thought worth living. Le Corbusier dreamed of "cleaning and purging cities of disorder" with "calm and powerful architecture." (his words) His plan for Paris was never realized, though his ideals are apparent internationally, unfortunately. He was addicted to a certain kind of untested, abstract knowledge. I tried to articulate…

Whether Le Corbusier's vision for Paris was stupid or not, I'm not sure it means we need to go back to some hyper-idealized vision of the past (which I'm not sure ever existed).

In glorifying western ideals of history with flowery language, I think you've forgotten to examine what daily life was like living under the power structures that financed those "magnificent decorative artworks."

You romanticize the idea of a peasant walking past ornamental buildings in an old town square, while forgetting that, those buildings were created as a statement of power and influence by the aristocracy who controlled daily life.

The peasants did not go home to one of those "beautifully" decorative buildings. They went home to a shack with no running water and died of some hilariously curable illness at the age of 35. One of their children probably died before the age of 10. But oh, they had the wonderful mysticism of religion and ornamental wallpapers to gaze upon!

Sure, I guess you could call the 7 layers of crown molding and statues carved into statues "enchanting." As an endeavor of sheer human man hours and craftsmanship, its definitely interesting.

But I wouldn't call the rationalist forces that led to overthrowing those practices bad. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I would enjoy having 3 generations of my family enslaved as "artisans" for the sole purpose of carving patterns in a ceiling so one rich guy can impress his buddies.

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#29

Post by agumonkey »

bsanr2 wrote: post #20
agumonkey wrote: post #10

With the recent googlemaps timeline feature (also featured in various geographical websites) it's interesting to revisit land use in the last century. After scanning my native area in the 50s I was staggered by the amount of fields in my now urban area. And basically every housing project (say 5+ building sets) was either an old forest block or a field. Also even though we're all hearing about how humanity is too big…

Where would I find this feature?

for France there's this https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/comparer/basic?x=2.012437&y=4...

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/

Re: Le Corbusier as I Knew Him (1977)

#30

Post by caycep »

simonsarris wrote: post #14

> His view of life was moral. He was loyal to mathematics, to order, to living the life he thought worth living. Le Corbusier dreamed of "cleaning and purging cities of disorder" with "calm and powerful architecture." (his words) His plan for Paris was never realized, though his ideals are apparent internationally, unfortunately. He was addicted to a certain kind of untested, abstract knowledge. I tried to articulate…

There was an undergrad art history course where the professor contrasted his ideals here w/ Venturi and Scott-Brown's "messy vitality" as encoded in their "Learning from Las Vegas" project
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