How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation • Hacker News Board

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#21

Post by mc32 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

elmomle wrote: post #17

mc32 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Legalization is one key part; destigmatization is the other. Those who understand addiction, either first-hand or through research, understand that the root problem is not the drug/habit; the drug/habit tends to be the addict's best known way to sooth immense psychological pain. Shame drives addiction in deeper. So to actually help addicts, one needs to destigmatize the conversation, allow people to say "Hey, I'm in…

I’m not saying we punish the user, but rather find a way to minimize availability.

Also, trauma is not always a cause for addiction. Lots of people suffer trauma and don’t get addicted, conversely we also have people with little trauma who get addicted.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#22

Post by wahern » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

kaesar14 wrote: post #2

Everytime I read an article like this, 18 years out from the start of the war, I'm reminded of this Onion headline from that time: https://www.theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entir... "This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t" The statistic in this article about under-25 unemployment being 36% breaks my heart. This would've been…

Interestingly, the unemployment rate only began increasing in 2012: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLUEM1524ZSIRQ Same pattern for total unemployment: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.TOTL.ZS?location...

In 2012 it was as low as it ever had been in 20 years. So what began in 2012? ISIS? Syrian civil war refugees? Completion of U.S. military withdrawal? (All a consequence of the U.S. intervention, to be sure, but knowing that isn't particularly useful in this case.)

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#23

Post by sn_master » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

I encourage anyone to attend a Narcotics Anonymous meeting at least once. They're all online now because of COVID, and you'll find ones specific to each city or state.

You don't have to be an addict to attend one and it'll help you greatly understand what people are going through.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#24

Post by btilly » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #6

el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Do you have any evidence that using law enforcement is reducing drug use? I sure don't!

As for actively discouraging people, we are actively discouraging people from using tobacco. And it seems to be working pretty well.

I recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8yYJ_oV6xk to challenge your assumptions on this. (Retired police captain arguing against the drug war.)

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#25

Post by sn_master » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

kaesar14 wrote: post #2

Everytime I read an article like this, 18 years out from the start of the war, I'm reminded of this Onion headline from that time: https://www.theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entir... "This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t" The statistic in this article about under-25 unemployment being 36% breaks my heart. This would've been…

> "A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism"

I used to live in a major middle eastern country when this was going on. People were outright talking about the Crusader wars and there was a terrible sentiment against anyone with a light complexion.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#26

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

api wrote: post #14

shawnz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely the abuse potential of methampetamine is similar to amphetamine (see e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475187/ ) So, the chemical is probably not the problem. It's also likely methamphetamine performs better for medical use cases. See: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines EDIT: Otherwise, though, I thoroughly agree with what you are saying here in that having acces…

I don't have first-hand experience, but I know people who do. Every single person I've spoken to who has had an issue with drugs has said that methamphetamine is "different." But of course that's not scientific. I'm not sure how many reliable studies have been done. It could be a result of the potency of street meth rather than the chemical.

[deleted]

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#27

Post by kaesar14 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

wahern wrote: post #22

kaesar14 wrote: post #2

Everytime I read an article like this, 18 years out from the start of the war, I'm reminded of this Onion headline from that time: https://www.theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entir... "This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t" The statistic in this article about under-25 unemployment being 36% breaks my heart. This would've been…

Interestingly, the unemployment rate only began increasing in 2012: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLUEM1524ZSIRQ Same pattern for total unemployment: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.TOTL.ZS?location... In 2012 it was as low as it ever had been in 20 years. So what began in 2012? ISIS? Syrian civil war refugees? Completion of U.S. military withdrawal? (All a consequence of the U.S. intervention, to be…

All 4? I imagine American occupation was "good" for employment while it was going on - providing a steady flow of income from soldiers and the military paying for goods and services while we were there.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#28

Post by mc32 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #16

mc32 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Cigarettes are legal yet many Western countries have been successful at driving down their use.

Do you think if we made them illegal use would go up or go down?

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#29

Post by otabdeveloper4 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

el_nahual wrote: post #4

mc32 wrote: post #3

I know we have a few advocates for legalization. How do you address this scourge with legalization beyond a principles based approach and one that deals with the reality on the ground? I’m for soft drugs legalization, but when it comes to these things that just consume people I cannot see legalization as a viable approach.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

"Well, the reality on the ground says that rape being illegal does not actually make it impossible."

Hell of a logic! Guess that means we should throw laws out the window and focus on making rapes safer and more enjoyable for rape victims?

Inb4 "consent": that ship sailed long ago once addiction came on the scene.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#30

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

Lots of problems with modern Iraq can be blamed on the US invasion, and English-language media is inclined to connect issues with the war because that framing is accessible to their readership. But is there really so much of a connection here? Crystal meth epidemics have arisen among a number of peoples – white South Africans, Thais, in the US both poor Rust Belt inhabitants and some rather affluent gay subcultures, etc. – whose countries have not been invaded recently.