NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules • Hacker News Board

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#21

Post by rozab » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

ditn wrote: post #13

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #7

Gotta love the images of the overly complex QR codes... Hey devs, stop packing so much info on those things!

You might like this then - turns out the QR codes are a cluster https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html

Damn, you should make a new post for this article if it hasn't been posted yet

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#22

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

In this specific case, I'm really glad they're exercising their power, because they seem to be doing it in the best possible way, and have forced governments to do the right, privacy-preserving thing.

And I think having this power is OK - nobody should be forced to help the government implement something unethical. There may be scenarios where this goes horribly wrong, but the contact tracing framework is a case where it went perfectly right.

Yes, the QR-checkin feature is something where an exception could make sense, but given what it would pave the way for, I'm glad they keep the rules strict.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#23

Post by spacemanmatt » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

ircshotty wrote: post #14

cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

Can't speak for Google's case - but Apple certainly goes to great pains to make it clear they don't collect location data on users - it's left on the user's device. Isn't it interesting that it takes an international mega-corporation to take a more realistic and principled approach to user privacy than a democratic government.

If you're trying to make a case that Apple is my ally against government, I understand but disagree that Apple's privacy policy makes them my ally.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#24

Post by Gatsky » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

If there is one thing we’ve learned from this pandemic it’s that apps will not save us.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#25

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

dkarp wrote: post #17

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #7

Gotta love the images of the overly complex QR codes... Hey devs, stop packing so much info on those things!

I was curious what it was sending so scanned it: UKC19TRACING:1:eyJhbGciOiJFUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6ImlSNHdIVEIxdkF2a 2RjbEdCQWVwUlpxSzZSb29GbVNxcEpDQVd4alFvUFEifQ.eyJpZCI6IlA1Mkt XUFIzIiwidHlwIjoiZW50cnkiLCJvcG4iOiJFbncgTGxlb2xpYWQgeSBQcmF3 ZiIsImFkciI6IldlbHNoIEdvdmVybm1lbnRcbkNyb3duIEJ1aWxkaW5nXG5DY XRoYXlzIFBhcmtcbkNBUkRJRkYsIENGMTAgM05RIiwicHQiOiJDQVJESUZGIi wicGMiOiJDRjEwM05RIiwidnQiOiIwMDEifQ.3USKQlzdD4_RlH-wWvPPyQig…

[deleted]

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#26

Post by spacemanmatt » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

mbalyuzi wrote: post #11

cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

I find it interesting that there seems to be a (wilful?) ignorance on the part of our government as to quite how big and powerful those corporations are. There seems to be a bit of a "We're the government, so they'll have to do what we ask/tell" going on here I suspect. Probably coupled with incompetent IT project management that didn't bother to worry about the terms and conditions they signed up to, because that wa…

After seeing what Facebook would let the Russian government do, who in the U.S. government would cross them unless they had momentum for an antitrust suit and that includes a Supreme Court ready to enforce a pro-citizen regime.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#27

Post by nojito » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

The contract they initially signed said they won’t collect location data and now they want to collect data without signing a new contract.

They even acknowledge they made a mistake in the initial contract.

What’s the issue here?

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#28

Post by FlagsAreFun » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

dkarp wrote: post #17

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #7

Gotta love the images of the overly complex QR codes... Hey devs, stop packing so much info on those things!

I was curious what it was sending so scanned it: UKC19TRACING:1:eyJhbGciOiJFUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6ImlSNHdIVEIxdkF2a 2RjbEdCQWVwUlpxSzZSb29GbVNxcEpDQVd4alFvUFEifQ.eyJpZCI6IlA1Mkt XUFIzIiwidHlwIjoiZW50cnkiLCJvcG4iOiJFbncgTGxlb2xpYWQgeSBQcmF3 ZiIsImFkciI6IldlbHNoIEdvdmVybm1lbnRcbkNyb3duIEJ1aWxkaW5nXG5DY XRoYXlzIFBhcmtcbkNBUkRJRkYsIENGMTAgM05RIiwicHQiOiJDQVJESUZGIi wicGMiOiJDRjEwM05RIiwidnQiOiIwMDEifQ.3USKQlzdD4_RlH-wWvPPyQig…

AFAIK in my jurisdiction the QR codes are a simple number, which the app reports along with the names of the people who have checked in or you are checking in. The number represents all the data that UK code is trying to convey. Not sure why the UK code needs all of that within itself rather than having a lookup table of some sort the number points to.

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#29

Post by Kim_Bruning » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #4

Irrespective of ones own feelings about this particular app: isn't it interesting that Google and Apple have the power to collect all our location data, but can refuse our democratic governments access to that data even on a voluntary basis?

Just so long as we're clear that the final conclusion ought to be that no-one should have that data; rather than "ok, let's give it to the government, my next door neighbour, and the nearest cat as well then"

Re: NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules

#30

Post by Closi » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

FlagsAreFun wrote: post #28

dkarp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious what it was sending so scanned it: UKC19TRACING:1:eyJhbGciOiJFUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6ImlSNHdIVEIxdkF2a 2RjbEdCQWVwUlpxSzZSb29GbVNxcEpDQVd4alFvUFEifQ.eyJpZCI6IlA1Mkt XUFIzIiwidHlwIjoiZW50cnkiLCJvcG4iOiJFbncgTGxlb2xpYWQgeSBQcmF3 ZiIsImFkciI6IldlbHNoIEdvdmVybm1lbnRcbkNyb3duIEJ1aWxkaW5nXG5DY XRoYXlzIFBhcmtcbkNBUkRJRkYsIENGMTAgM05RIiwicHQiOiJDQVJESUZGIi wicGMiOiJDRjEwM05RIiwidnQiOiIwMDEifQ.3USKQlzdD4_RlH-wWvPPyQig…

AFAIK in my jurisdiction the QR codes are a simple number, which the app reports along with the names of the people who have checked in or you are checking in. The number represents all the data that UK code is trying to convey. Not sure why the UK code needs all of that within itself rather than having a lookup table of some sort the number points to.

If the lookup table was stored on the server, requesting the data would effectively provide the user location to the central server. This is the part that isn't allowed.

I suspect the lookup table is too big to store on the device itself.