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Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

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Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#21

Post by krapp »

p1necone wrote: post #6
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Presumably slavish dedication to historical accuracy. Although were there really no cultures in that era that allowed same sex marriage? I personally wouldn't want a seemingly historically accurate (ish) game to present the churches of the age as being okay with same sex marriage when they weren't. Although being able to toggle it on in the settings would be cool.

>Although were there really no cultures in that era that allowed same sex marriage?

No Christian cultures, obviously.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#22

Post by josefx »

mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Take a look at the screenshot of that same sex marriage, do you notice something odd? The gender symbols at the bottom are male/female not male/male. The patch only disables the gender check, it does not fix the game content or any other logic related to marriage. There are probably dozens of follow up bugs waiting, some of which will need new game logic and art to fix.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#23

Post by retrac »

mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

I suspect it has approximately nothing to do with what the patch implemented. And a lot more to do with it being effectively a guide to reverse-engineering the game executable. Paradox makes multiplayer games. They probably saw this as How To Cheat 101.

As to not wanting to do the work to make it implementable without a binary patch, well, it's just not in the game. I can imagine hesitance to start modifying the game based on demands of modders for multiple reasons, even if they liked the mod itself.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#24

Post by omegaworks »

p1necone wrote: post #6
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Presumably slavish dedication to historical accuracy. Although were there really no cultures in that era that allowed same sex marriage? I personally wouldn't want a seemingly historically accurate (ish) game to present the churches of the age as being okay with same sex marriage when they weren't. Although being able to toggle it on in the settings would be cool.

It's expressing a constraint that wasn't entirely set until the end of the period of time the game is set in, as the power of the nobility and church consolidate. It would be more interesting if it allowed you to play with some of the tensions between the church and the nobility. Want to marry your same-sex spouse? Throw your weight around a la King Henry VIII and establish your own church.

https://theconversation.com/a-thousand-years-ago-the-catholi...

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#25

Post by maxander »

sudosysgen wrote: post #18
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Crusader Kings III has you live on as your daughter/son when you die. As there is no adoption mechanic, same-sex relationships will lead to a game over unless you are one of the few countries that can use the House Seniority mechanic. So I guess they never got around to implementing adoption. Banning though...? That was weird.

> So I guess they never got around to implementing adoption.

If you think about this, it seems pretty obvious the reason they didn’t include adoption was that it’s overpowered. The CK series is all about managing dynasties, so the randomness of reproduction is a major game mechanic, one of the primary sources of problems and challenges. Adoption would totally negate all of that.

Like, if Henry VIII could just have adopted a son, his whole story would have been so much more straightforward! :)

(None of which really justifies the Paradox response, of course, since adoption isn’t necessary for having same-sex marriages (even player ones) and not losing.)

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#26

Post by ttt0 »

p1necone wrote: post #15
jeffchien wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their official stance [1] is: > You can make same-sex relations acceptable, but marriage will still only be opposite due to historical constraints. Other than their official stance, I wonder if it's because they'd need to script in the in-game church's (presumably negative) reaction to this. Also there doesn't seem to be adoption in the base game, so maybe they didn't want to hand the player a quick path to a game ov…

If it were me I'd just let same sex couples impregnate each other, regardless of sex. Sounds like a hoot.

I'd also add furries and dragonkins while we're at it, because why not, it might as well be a fantasy game

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#27

Post by paxys »

cafemachiavelli wrote: post #12

For a second that title made me remember early SEO tactics of stuffing your H1 tags with as many relevant keywords as possible, except here it's optimizing for my queer nerd interests. I'm a bit surprised by the reaction from Paradox - I assume the standard forum mod has neither the time nor skillset to assess whether any game binary patch is going to be safe, so banning them by default seems like a safe way to go, b…

Probably an automated ban. You can't have people distributing patches to game binaries on the official forums. Too much potential for malware, and the company ends up being liable (if not legally then at least PR wise).

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#28

Post by paxys »

jeffchien wrote: post #9
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Their official stance [1] is: > You can make same-sex relations acceptable, but marriage will still only be opposite due to historical constraints. Other than their official stance, I wonder if it's because they'd need to script in the in-game church's (presumably negative) reaction to this. Also there doesn't seem to be adoption in the base game, so maybe they didn't want to hand the player a quick path to a game ov…

That's their official stance for the game itself, not the modding tools. I can assure you same sex marriage is probably the least historically inaccurate thing that would be modded in. Heck you can make yourself a kingdom of homosexuals.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#29

Post by Forge36 »

mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Inheritance and adoption was probably cut from the feature set for simplicity. Without an heir you "lose"and I suspect adoption to force an heir would break some lose scenarios

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#30

Post by sudosysgen »

dudul wrote: post #20
vmception wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they just didn't program that and had too little representation in their company to notice and weigh that against marketability in various markets.

Or they did notice, figured out it would be complex to modify the engine to handle this case, found data indicating that having this feature or not would have zero impact of the marketability/sales of the game, and just decided to use the bandwidth on something more valuable.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.
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