Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#21

Post by abhv » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

Which of Breyer's clerks drafted this? They clearly understand many tech issues and I hope they find their place on some Federal circuit to herald an era of logic in tech law.

"Google’s limited copying of the API is a transformative use. Google copied only what was needed to allow programmers to work in a different computing environment without discarding a portion of a familiar programming language. Google’s purpose was to create a different task-related system for a different computing environment (smartphones) and to create a platform—the Android platform—that would help achieve and popularize that objective. "

...

"Here the record showed that Google’s new smartphone platform is not a market substitute for Java SE."

...

"Google copied these lines not because of their creativity or beauty but because they would allow programmers to bring their skills to a new smartphone computing environment. "

...

"the Court concludes that Google’s copying of the API to reimplement a user interface, taking only what was needed to allow users to put their accrued talents to work in a new and transformative program, constituted a fair use of that material as a matter of law. "

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#22

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

esarbe wrote: post #6

I'm so relieved. This could have forced such dramatic changes in how we develop software. And any other decision would have been a crippling blow to FLOS software. Now if we only could get the SC to invalidate software patents in general.

This is a large scale defeat of the GPL and dual licensing, so I'm not sure how this could be anything but a sad day for sustainable open source development.

If you're big enough and have enough lawyers, there's no reason to license software you want to build on.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#23

Post by Bluecobra » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

I am glad Oracle didn't win. It seems to me that they bought Sun just to sue Google. I'm still bitter over for how they destroyed Sun... it's a shame that they didn't have a better steward.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#24

Post by ve55 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

I had forgotten about this for quite awhile, given the pace at which these cases operate at.

The great sigh of relief I was unexpectedly gifted this morning upon seeing this at #1 was a nice surprise. Very important precedent, good job.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#25

Post by curt15 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

"(e) The fact that computer programs are primarily functional makes it difficult to apply traditional copyright concepts in that technological world."

So the opinion effectively preserves the status quo in the software industry while sidestepping the question of API copyrightability.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#26

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

politelemon wrote: post #15

tyingq wrote: post #5

The HN discussion from 2016 (Jury finds for Google): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11781053 From 2018 (Oracle revives matter via appeal): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16688521 Edit: Fixed, had written "Jury finds for Oracle", which was NOT what happened in 2016. Argh.

I'm unfamiliar with the legal system (judicial system?). I had thought that the jury's findings were final. Am I understanding correctly that the case still went to the Supreme Court of the US, and now that court finds in favor of Google. What happens after this, more appeals or is this like a proper static const readonly final?

In the US, the Supreme Court is the static const readonly final. It's over. There is literally no route of appeal or any way Oracle can keep this case going without a whole new lawsuit. The Supreme Court can elect to make a ruling and then send it back to a smaller court _if they choose_ for final assessment, but they did not do that here, making this ruling definitive.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#27

Post by jblz » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

From the dissent: "In the 1990s, Oracle created a programming language called Java..."

Sun Microsystems was acquired in 2010... I guess I should give Thomas the benefit of the doubt that he intended the statement to apply to Oracle's owned IP & not be a historical account of the language's creation and creators, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#28

Post by imadethis » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

Page 44 has Thomas’s dissent with Alito concurring. Worth a read as well, even just to see the opposing arguments.

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#29

Post by _Microft » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

Is this a final judgement? Is it over now?

Re: Google’s copying of the Java SE API was fair use [pdf]

#30

Post by holtalanm » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

politelemon wrote: post #15

tyingq wrote: post #5

The HN discussion from 2016 (Jury finds for Google): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11781053 From 2018 (Oracle revives matter via appeal): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16688521 Edit: Fixed, had written "Jury finds for Oracle", which was NOT what happened in 2016. Argh.

I'm unfamiliar with the legal system (judicial system?). I had thought that the jury's findings were final. Am I understanding correctly that the case still went to the Supreme Court of the US, and now that court finds in favor of Google. What happens after this, more appeals or is this like a proper static const readonly final?

IANAL, but I believe what the US Supreme Court says is final. There isn't any appellate court for the highest court in the land.