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Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

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Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#21

Post by donw »

Iv wrote: post #12

One thing that surprised me coming to live in countryside Japan is that everybody is part of the "kumi" hierarchical structure. They are neighborhood assemblies, so 10-20 persons in my area, with a president and a budget. The kumi bosses elect a boss for their super-kumi (forgot the name of that) and it is hierarchical up to the city level. They meet regularly to discuss local events, repairs, but mostly the matsuri…

I've been asked to step in and take this over for our neighborhood, so I'm learning about this process.

Doing so has really showcased one thing that I truly like about Japan: people tend to take care of their communities.

This starts from a young age: even in grade school, kids are responsible for cleaning their schools, and for serving lunch to other kids.

Back when Mom was alive, I asked her about why we didn't do this in the US -- she was a school-board member -- and it boiled down to: "The parents will sue us for a gigantic list of reasons, the union representing the janitors will sue us because having students clean violates our work contract with the janitors, it probably violates child-labor laws, and the media will eat us alive for all of the above reasons."

In the case of my neighborhood, we have a communal trash area, and there's a rotating roster for which household gets to handle cleaning that trash area for any given week.

I am heavily incentivized to ensure this area stays clean, as it is immediately in front of my house. :)

Even when I was living in a high-rise, where trash was handled by the building, we had a "floor coordinator" -- also a resident -- that handled a number of things, including emergency drills. The coordination of which was assigned to me after I slept through the first one, thus ensuring that I would not make that mistake again.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#22

Post by unishark »

atoav wrote: post #7
keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

I've been to Japan and it's a wonderful place with many benefits. Very low crime, polite people, etc. The language is the only real problem.

The US, though, is vastly more heterogeneous. There are aspects that are far worse and aspects that are far better. And you can choose. There are infamous high-crime neighborhoods with gang problems; you don't have to live in them. Meanwhile want a job making very good money and with flexible hours and a boss that treats you like an equal? non-existent in Japan.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#23

Post by Iv »

donw wrote: post #21
Iv wrote: post #12

One thing that surprised me coming to live in countryside Japan is that everybody is part of the "kumi" hierarchical structure. They are neighborhood assemblies, so 10-20 persons in my area, with a president and a budget. The kumi bosses elect a boss for their super-kumi (forgot the name of that) and it is hierarchical up to the city level. They meet regularly to discuss local events, repairs, but mostly the matsuri…

I've been asked to step in and take this over for our neighborhood, so I'm learning about this process. Doing so has really showcased one thing that I truly like about Japan: people tend to take care of their communities. This starts from a young age: even in grade school, kids are responsible for cleaning their schools, and for serving lunch to other kids. Back when Mom was alive, I asked her about why we didn't do…

There is this solidarity part that I like but in my case I find it really outweighed by the bad parts that force individuals to conform and to do no waves to be part of the community.

In our case it culminated with a PE teacher of the local school who was hitting the students members of his kendo club and sent one to the hospital. And the discovery that all the parents of the club members knew about that.

Yes, if there is one thing I would like to take from the Japanese school system it is the cleaning of the classroom and serving of lunch, but if that meant also importing the sempai-kohai system and the bullying culture it enables, forget about it.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#24

Post by dbt00 »

donw wrote: post #21
Iv wrote: post #12

One thing that surprised me coming to live in countryside Japan is that everybody is part of the "kumi" hierarchical structure. They are neighborhood assemblies, so 10-20 persons in my area, with a president and a budget. The kumi bosses elect a boss for their super-kumi (forgot the name of that) and it is hierarchical up to the city level. They meet regularly to discuss local events, repairs, but mostly the matsuri…

I've been asked to step in and take this over for our neighborhood, so I'm learning about this process. Doing so has really showcased one thing that I truly like about Japan: people tend to take care of their communities. This starts from a young age: even in grade school, kids are responsible for cleaning their schools, and for serving lunch to other kids. Back when Mom was alive, I asked her about why we didn't do…

The school can't do it but in plenty of communities there are community organizations where parents and kids help clean up their local neighborhood and beautify things. I grew up in such a place, in what was often a troubled neighborhood in Chicago. It doesn't have to be the school that does it.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#25

Post by keenreed »

oreally wrote: post #3
keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

> So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional. You do realize this is a pretty condescending and closed-minded statement to make no? It's been said that any developing country going through accelerated economic improvement will have their birth rates reduced by quite a bit. That doesn't make it their society any less functional than say the NRA vs mass shootings, or political gridlocks between parties.…

In west birth rate declines because people have more options and want to enjoy life. That was not my experience in Japan. They have rigid culture of corporations, education, hard labor and over achievement. Some people just do not like that. There is no communication, because society does not like conflict!

US politics is other extreme, there is no communication, because society loves conflict! It will get started whenever and wherever possible.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#26

Post by donw »

Iv wrote: post #23
donw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been asked to step in and take this over for our neighborhood, so I'm learning about this process. Doing so has really showcased one thing that I truly like about Japan: people tend to take care of their communities. This starts from a young age: even in grade school, kids are responsible for cleaning their schools, and for serving lunch to other kids. Back when Mom was alive, I asked her about why we didn't do…

There is this solidarity part that I like but in my case I find it really outweighed by the bad parts that force individuals to conform and to do no waves to be part of the community. In our case it culminated with a PE teacher of the local school who was hitting the students members of his kendo club and sent one to the hospital. And the discovery that all the parents of the club members knew about that. Yes, if the…

I'm not sure how cleaning schools requires the sempai-kohai system...?

Besides, while I'm not a fan of the whole sempai-kohai thing, it's not like bullying isn't absolutely rampant in US schools which wholly lack that cultural mechanism.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#27

Post by neolog »

mpweiher wrote: post #14
sneak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing in GP that suggested they were referring to the economy specifically: the population has been in decline for some time, and many parts of the country are losing tax revenues.

We need populations to at the very least stagnate, decline is also not a bad idea.

Is that opinion common among experts?

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#28

Post by yorwba »

> Japanese politics is different from US politics. And not in the quirky, hand-wagging way that European politics is different. Japanese politics is not US politics expressed using a different idiom, but rather a world of its own.

I'm surprised by the implication that the authors think European politics is US politics expressed using a different idiom. There's not even such a thing as a single "European politics". Just compare France, where President Macron's party « La République En Marche ! » was founded in 2016, and Germany, where CDU and SPD used to be in binary opposition, but lost so much support that they had to form a coalition government together to stay in power.

The article mentions that

> existing research shows that party loyalty, insofar as it is understood in the US and Europe as a sense of identification with a “team”, is almost unknown in Japan.[6] The Japanese World Values Survey team even went so far as to drop the standard question on party loyalty from their poll as it was “not relevant in Japan”

so I went to look for the World Values Survey. https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSOnline.jsp Their website is some terrible session-based thing where you can't link to anything, so here's the path you need to follow: "2017-2020" → "Select all" → "Next" → Enter "Q98" as the variable → click on "Show" in the search result → select the "Maps" tab → select "Not a member".

The percentage of people who're not in a political party in Japan is 94.4%, with the closest European countries being Denmark (94.7%) and Germany (93.5%). The US is the country with the lowest percentage of non-party members at 49.9%. I think it's pretty clear who's the odd one out here.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#29

Post by donw »

dbt00 wrote: post #24
donw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been asked to step in and take this over for our neighborhood, so I'm learning about this process. Doing so has really showcased one thing that I truly like about Japan: people tend to take care of their communities. This starts from a young age: even in grade school, kids are responsible for cleaning their schools, and for serving lunch to other kids. Back when Mom was alive, I asked her about why we didn't do…

The school can't do it but in plenty of communities there are community organizations where parents and kids help clean up their local neighborhood and beautify things. I grew up in such a place, in what was often a troubled neighborhood in Chicago. It doesn't have to be the school that does it.

It depends on what your goals are. We had similar volunteer programs where I grew up. Things were clean enough, but the classrooms were still a mess, and people still threw their trash away on the street for the volunteers to pick up.

For Americans that have never spent time in Japan, Korea, or Switzerland for that matter, they are nominally clean in a way that is rare-nigh-on-extinct in the US.

In Japan, seeing trash on the ground or graffiti are both very uncommon. Moreso now than when I moved here a decade ago, especially in Tokyo, but the toilet at my local public park is cleaner than the one I last used when I visited a hospital stateside.

The problem with volunteering is that you only get volunteers. When everybody grows up learning that community care is their responsibility, and not just "somebody else's job", there are some big benefits to a society as a whole.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#30

Post by johnnycerberus »

atoav wrote: post #7
keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

Why would you give up on freedom and live in a society as rigid (not in a derogatory sense) as Japan's? I'm also European, but I would rather live in US than in Japan. I believe opinions on US differ in Europe, you should have said that it's your personal opinion, if you dislike US that doesn't mean that it has any correlation with the fact thay you are European.
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