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Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

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Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#21

Post by goalieca »

ahelwer wrote: post #15
enriquto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for some reason "intermediate" consequences are just impossible to implement in bureaucracies or organizations in general This is not particular to small organizations, it's a feature of the whole society. This attitude is one of the hallmarks of a move towards totalitarianism. There is no compromise possible, total defeat or total annihilation of opposing views are the only options.

This isn't an attitude, it's a response to the reality that intermediate consequences are never implemented. Solve that problem and you'll solve this cancel culture stuff people are complaining about.

Punishment vs rehabilitation. In this case you can have a chat with Stallman about the consequences of the pen and how people felt when they read his words and have him make a public statement afterwards.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#22

Post by mijoharas »

john37386 wrote: post #4

Why is this post not flagged vs this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26646048 What is the reasoning at HN for allowing one side of the story and censuring the other side. Very disappointed at HN moderators...

> What is the reasoning at HN for allowing one side of the story and censuring the other side.

This is a graph showing the counts of signatories both for and against. How is this post possibly coming out on either side of this issue?

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#23

Post by ahelwer »

goalieca wrote: post #21
ahelwer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't an attitude, it's a response to the reality that intermediate consequences are never implemented. Solve that problem and you'll solve this cancel culture stuff people are complaining about.

Punishment vs rehabilitation. In this case you can have a chat with Stallman about the consequences of the pen and how people felt when they read his words and have him make a public statement afterwards.

Yeah, except even that has not happened over the long history of Stallman's bad behavior. People close ranks and support him. So finally he goes and defends pedophilia or whatever right in the middle of a huge scandal about academia's links to a child sex trafficker, and that puts him over the top. This is exactly what I'm talking about! The time for Stallman to sit down and write an apology for his actions was years ago. That ship has sailed.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#24

Post by ahelwer »

feverzsj wrote: post #20
ahelwer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more than the Epstein thing. This has been going on for years. Telling an undergrad he would kill himself if she didn't date him is one example.

Then ask yourself: When did this happen? Told by who? Any reliable evidence?

This has been an established pattern of behavior reported by multiple women over time, fitting with what we know about his interactions & attitude toward female colleagues. Zooming in on a single incident to cross-examine it like a court case is exactly what leads to these zero-consequences outcomes that drive women out of the field.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#25

Post by gruez »

ahelwer wrote: post #23
goalieca wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishment vs rehabilitation. In this case you can have a chat with Stallman about the consequences of the pen and how people felt when they read his words and have him make a public statement afterwards.

Yeah, except even that has not happened over the long history of Stallman's bad behavior. People close ranks and support him. So finally he goes and defends pedophilia or whatever right in the middle of a huge scandal about academia's links to a child sex trafficker, and that puts him over the top. This is exactly what I'm talking about! The time for Stallman to sit down and write an apology for his actions was years…

>So finally he goes and defends pedophilia or whatever

But he didn't?

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#26

Post by zihotki »

ahelwer wrote: post #24
feverzsj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then ask yourself: When did this happen? Told by who? Any reliable evidence?

This has been an established pattern of behavior reported by multiple women over time, fitting with what we know about his interactions & attitude toward female colleagues. Zooming in on a single incident to cross-examine it like a court case is exactly what leads to these zero-consequences outcomes that drive women out of the field.

That only makes him a weirdo, not more than that. Should he be prosecuted for being weirdo? I doubt so. It was uncomfortable for women but they weren't forced or threatened (remember he was saying he will kill himself, not her/him).

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#28

Post by ahelwer »

zihotki wrote: post #26
ahelwer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been an established pattern of behavior reported by multiple women over time, fitting with what we know about his interactions & attitude toward female colleagues. Zooming in on a single incident to cross-examine it like a court case is exactly what leads to these zero-consequences outcomes that drive women out of the field.

That only makes him a weirdo, not more than that. Should he be prosecuted for being weirdo? I doubt so. It was uncomfortable for women but they weren't forced or threatened (remember he was saying he will kill himself, not her/him).

We aren't talking about prosecution! We are talking about him facing any consequences whatsoever!

The idea that you don't view that situation as threatening is just so myopic. People who are unstable enough to threaten suicide because of romantic rejection are a danger to others, not just themselves. Ask a woman, literally any woman you know, about whether they would feel safe in that situation.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#29

Post by parrellel »

gruez wrote: post #25
ahelwer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except even that has not happened over the long history of Stallman's bad behavior. People close ranks and support him. So finally he goes and defends pedophilia or whatever right in the middle of a huge scandal about academia's links to a child sex trafficker, and that puts him over the top. This is exactly what I'm talking about! The time for Stallman to sit down and write an apology for his actions was years…

>So finally he goes and defends pedophilia or whatever But he didn't?

Ephebophilia, or whatever -_-

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#30

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

ahelwer wrote: post #28
zihotki wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only makes him a weirdo, not more than that. Should he be prosecuted for being weirdo? I doubt so. It was uncomfortable for women but they weren't forced or threatened (remember he was saying he will kill himself, not her/him).

We aren't talking about prosecution! We are talking about him facing any consequences whatsoever! The idea that you don't view that situation as threatening is just so myopic. People who are unstable enough to threaten suicide because of romantic rejection are a danger to others, not just themselves. Ask a woman, literally any woman you know, about whether they would feel safe in that situation.

I was in such a situation twice. My ex-girlfriend threatened she would kill herself if I leave. Another woman said if I don't stay with her she will likely get very ill. It never ever crossed my mind to inform their employers these women were harassing me. Even if I did (why?!) I don't think it would be fair to fire these women.
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