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Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

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Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#21

Post by jaywalk »

thayne wrote: post #16
darig wrote: post #5

A false DMCA takedown is equivalent to perjury. If SteamDB were to counter-sue Sega, Sega could be punished for perjury, forced to pay SteamDB's lawyers fees, and potentially lose their copyright on the content they claimed was violated.

Really? If the risks for making a false DMCA takedown request were that high, I would expect to see less false takedown notices, and less aggressive bots. Or maybe the aggressors are just assuming that the victims don't have the resources to fight a megacorp in court? If it's the latter it seems like an organization like EFF should step in to fund such a fight.

I believe for all of the above to apply, it would have to be proven that the request was knowingly malicious, as in they had full knowledge that the page did not infringe but decided to send a takedown notice anyway. That's highly unlikely, and good luck proving it anyway.

However, they are still liable and can absolutely be sued civilly for an improper takedown notice. But the penalty probably wouldn't extend beyond a monetary payment.

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#22

Post by jaywalk »

cptskippy wrote: post #19
darig wrote: post #5

A false DMCA takedown is equivalent to perjury. If SteamDB were to counter-sue Sega, Sega could be punished for perjury, forced to pay SteamDB's lawyers fees, and potentially lose their copyright on the content they claimed was violated.

There has never been any blowback from false DMCA claims.

That is not true. This old (2010) article mentions two such cases: https://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/intellectual-property/con...

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#23

Post by Aeolun »

jaywalk wrote: post #21
thayne wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? If the risks for making a false DMCA takedown request were that high, I would expect to see less false takedown notices, and less aggressive bots. Or maybe the aggressors are just assuming that the victims don't have the resources to fight a megacorp in court? If it's the latter it seems like an organization like EFF should step in to fund such a fight.

I believe for all of the above to apply, it would have to be proven that the request was knowingly malicious, as in they had full knowledge that the page did not infringe but decided to send a takedown notice anyway. That's highly unlikely, and good luck proving it anyway. However, they are still liable and can absolutely be sued civilly for an improper takedown notice. But the penalty probably wouldn't extend beyond…

At what point does neglicent become knowingly malicious?

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#24

Post by dragonwriter »

bhaak wrote: post #6

Aren't they reacting wrong to the DMCA complaint? Shouldn't Cloudflare have some form where SteamDB could state "we don't infringe on your copyright" and then it's up to SEGA to take this to court?

> Shouldn't Cloudflare have some form where SteamDB could state "we don't infringe on your copyright" and then it's up to SEGA to take this to court?

Not really.

I mean, yes, the DMCA provides an additional safe harbor for putting stuff back up in response to a counternotice, but most providers have structured their relationship with users such that they are certain to have no liability for a takedown-and-keepdown in the first place, so they have very little incentive to have a counternotice process.

The difference between safe harbor requirements and real legal requirements is that whether there is any force behind the former depends entirely on whether you have any preexisting liability for the safe harbor to protect you from.

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#25

Post by elliekelly »

krageon wrote: post #8
bhaak wrote: post #6

Aren't they reacting wrong to the DMCA complaint? Shouldn't Cloudflare have some form where SteamDB could state "we don't infringe on your copyright" and then it's up to SEGA to take this to court?

Hire some lawyers, have them send a letter back that says "no" surrounded by a lot of words and wait. It'll either resolve itself or they'll win in court, either way is okay.

Don’t you think there’s something inherently wrong with a system where someone can either afford to stand up to a (possible) bully or they can’t? Absent the intervention of public outrage the side willing/able to withstand more legal fees “wins” these fact patterns the vast majority of the time. To me, that doesn’t seem like a system designed to achieve the intended outcome in the spirit of the law.

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#26

Post by dragonwriter »

darig wrote: post #5

A false DMCA takedown is equivalent to perjury. If SteamDB were to counter-sue Sega, Sega could be punished for perjury, forced to pay SteamDB's lawyers fees, and potentially lose their copyright on the content they claimed was violated.

> A false DMCA takedown is equivalent to perjury

No, it's not.

(There's a couple of points in a DMCA notice that are certified under penalty of perjury, but they aren't the 9bes that are likely to be be false on a false one in the first place.)

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#27

Post by funnymania »

Players of PSO2 (an MMO game) will tell you that SEGA is notoriously improbable to get a hold of, and they don't respond much beyond automated messaging to issues re: bans.

A couple friends were banned erroneously via an automated purge of around 10k+ players. Their customer service was stone silent.

Randomly with no communication, one of their accounts was back online after a couple months.

It's worth mentioning that these were premium members, paying around $15 a month, with 1000s of hours spent playing. No apologies. No refund for their time banned.

I don't have a good feeling of their methodologies and business practices. It's a part of the reason why I stopped playing.

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#28

Post by hedora »

ihuman wrote: post #11

https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1376796965942464515 > We've got in touch with someone at SEGA of America and it is being looked into. > Thanks for your support everyonee, it is truly amazing to see that my hobby (!) project is useful to so many people

I hope they consider taking Sega to court over this. Sega’s behavior is clearly in violation of the law, and a precedent needs to be set. Perhaps the EFF or a similar organization would be willing to represent them.

https://smallbiztrends.com/2015/05/fraudulent-dmca-takedown-...

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#29

Post by qalmakka »

I think that until the USA gets rid of legal lobbying from interest groups (aka, legalized corruption), this kinds of things will keep happening. Having to pull content down without any order from a judge is nonsense. These companies would be more careful if they had to go through some legal process instead of just ordering their lawyers to send empty threads to people that can't financially afford the economic burden of a long and expensive litigation.

Re: Sega Lawyers Demand “Immediate Suspension” of Steam Database over Alleged Piracy

#30

Post by mountainb »

harles wrote: post #13
krageon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire some lawyers, have them send a letter back that says "no" surrounded by a lot of words and wait. It'll either resolve itself or they'll win in court, either way is okay.

SteamDB is a hobby project by two guys - I doubt they want the cost of a lawyer or headache of a legal defense. They may also get suspended by CloudFlare in the meantime.

I think a response would take about 30 minutes billed time to tell them that it's fair use. If Sega decided to drop their DMCA claim, I don't think the cost would exceed 2 hours billed time even if they decided to write back or schedule a conference call about it or whatever. Depending on the nature of the claim, Sega's real disposition, and what was on the page, a counternotice might have sufficed to clear it up without ever contacting Sega.

Note that what they did really is fair use -- there are lots of situations in which people think that fair use extends farther than it really does.

Hiring a lawyer to fight a DMCA claim is not the same as hiring one to defend you in a lawsuit or a criminal matter.

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