Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 191 posts

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#21

Post by FractalParadigm »

brtkdotse wrote: post #5
beckman466 wrote: post #2

> "Insider reported in February that Amazon was equipping all delivery vehicles with an AI camera system called Driveri, which is manufactured by a company called Netradyne. > The cameras are always on and scan drivers' body language and the speed of the vehicle, detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. > The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has b…

> detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. These actually sound like good things, but they’re also implementable without a camera

To an extent, they already are. Most new class 8 trucks in North America are so connected to the rest of the fleet it's scary. A lot of trucks can be re-programmed by the company while it's out on the road. Sending the status of the seatbelt, coupled with lane monitoring systems that can phone-home as a violation if done x number of times in y , can easily implement the same goals at virtually zero cost.

Systems like this are for what you can't use existing vehicle sensors to do - detect if the driver is eating, drinking, using a cell phone (believe it or not some mega-carriers even have no-hands-free policies), reaching to adjust controls or grab something, talking to a passenger(s), doing drugs or drinking, the list goes on. They're meant to put as much liability and proof-of-fault as possible (or not) on the driver, and the whole driver-facing camera thing in general can drive down carrier insurance rates. "Oh the driver was reaching for his coffee and couldn't brake in time while someone cut them off to make their exit?" can sound great to some people to have on video, but "Driver was fired for eating a Big Mac while driving" or even "driver was caught masturbating in company truck" are very real things that have happened to people I personally know.

Luckily, there has been precedent set here in Canada that has banned driver-facing cameras for privacy-related reasons. Hopefully it stays that way, and the US follows soon. Whatever your views on how much safer it may make the roads, it's a gross invasion of privacy. I liken it to having your boss install a webcam in your office that's watching you 24/7, I'd bet a large majority of people would not put up with that.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#22

Post by flik »

beckman466 wrote: post #2

> "Insider reported in February that Amazon was equipping all delivery vehicles with an AI camera system called Driveri, which is manufactured by a company called Netradyne. > The cameras are always on and scan drivers' body language and the speed of the vehicle, detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. > The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has b…

"Netradyne provides cutting-edge technologies in AI, ML and Edge Computing to help reduce accidents by creating a new safe driving standard for commercial vehicles. Our industry solutions reduce driving incidents and protect against false claims"

https://www.netradyne.com/

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#23

Post by mewpmewp2 »

Closi wrote: post #10
brtkdotse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. These actually sound like good things, but they’re also implementable without a camera

These also sound like the excuses you come up with to install cameras in every car when you can't say the real reason because of bad PR. This approach works really well, because you can just accuse people who are against your proposals as being 'against driver safety'. It's similar to every other move in increasing surveillance in that you can come up with a 'PR-friendly' reason for the surveillance that people find…

What's the real reason to install those cameras in the car?

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#24

Post by koolba »

e-clinton wrote: post #20

Many blue collar workers are recorded all day long. In fact, it’d be tough finding a brick-and-mortar store that doesn’t have recording devices all over. Why is this news? Because it’s in a truck? Because it’s using AI?

Having a recording to examine when investigating an incident is different than an AI analyzes all video feeds in real time. The latter is more like each camera having a security team watching it 24/7. That may be common in some high risk environments (e.g. gambling or other large cash situations) but it’s certainly not the norm in vanilla retail.

Truck drivers have historically been independent, in both corporate structure and mindedness, so I can see this being particularly off putting.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#25

Post by mathieubordere »

tomhoward wrote: post #16
mathieubordere wrote: post #6

Do the drivers have to work extremely long shifts or do they have to work multiple jobs so that fatigue becomes an issue? In that case the camera system is probably not the right solution ...

Driver fatigue is an issue for freight companies of all sizes, everywhere, and use of amphetamines to stay awake has been a frequent practice among many drivers for a long time. This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue.

They sure have the size and the means to make an impact though.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#26

Post by agsamek »

What is the difference between this and having cctv in a factory building? Companies impose more work control over more people. If a company makes good use of it then it becomes a regular practice. If not then employees select another employer.

We are lucky that we work in a creative field, most occupancies require just good, repetitive work.

There should be a legal framework to destroy archive recordings, liability for misusing them, because there is a room for real abuse. Not in the work control.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#27

Post by Kye »

koolba wrote: post #24
e-clinton wrote: post #20

Many blue collar workers are recorded all day long. In fact, it’d be tough finding a brick-and-mortar store that doesn’t have recording devices all over. Why is this news? Because it’s in a truck? Because it’s using AI?

Having a recording to examine when investigating an incident is different than an AI analyzes all video feeds in real time. The latter is more like each camera having a security team watching it 24/7. That may be common in some high risk environments (e.g. gambling or other large cash situations) but it’s certainly not the norm in vanilla retail. Truck drivers have historically been independent, in both corporate str…

Even the screens in 1984 couldn't be monitored all the time. Somehow reality keeps becoming worse than fiction.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#28

Post by beckman466 »

agsamek wrote: post #26

What is the difference between this and having cctv in a factory building? Companies impose more work control over more people. If a company makes good use of it then it becomes a regular practice. If not then employees select another employer. We are lucky that we work in a creative field, most occupancies require just good, repetitive work. There should be a legal framework to destroy archive recordings, liability…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#29

Post by tomhoward »

Maybe it's just that I live in Australia, a country that has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community, given that our road fatality figures are now very low (in 2019 we had just under 1200 road deaths in a nation of 25.3M people - a low rate by world standards, particularly given how much we drive here).

But I just don't see the cause for outrage over this - as long as the system really is focused on the safety of drivers and other road users.

Sure, over-work is an issue for Amazon, but it's an issue for all freight/delivery/transport companies, particularly when the company is engaging private contractors, as they can't control how long a driver works, how fatigued they are, and how much they adhere to other safety practices like seatbelts.

I'm all for criticising Amazon and other companies when they really do go wrong and treat workers poorly, but what is the real evidence that this is such a case? How do we know this is anything other than a bona fide effort to ensure drivers are operating safely for the benefit of themselves and other road users?

The reference to AI in the article makes it sound dystopian, but isn't this potentially better, if it just means that computation is used to detect any issues rather than having humans watching their fellow workers?

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#30

Post by EarlKing »

brtkdotse wrote: post #5
beckman466 wrote: post #2

> "Insider reported in February that Amazon was equipping all delivery vehicles with an AI camera system called Driveri, which is manufactured by a company called Netradyne. > The cameras are always on and scan drivers' body language and the speed of the vehicle, detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. > The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has b…

> detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. These actually sound like good things, but they’re also implementable without a camera

Wearing a seatbelt was already monitored via vehicle telemetry, so this is patent nonsense.
Post reply on HN