VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144. • Hacker News Board

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#21

Post by maayank » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:02 PM UTC

tkahn6 wrote: post #17

imjustatechguy wrote: post #4

Annual US Aid to Israel is $382.97 per Israeli and going up.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. At $30 billion over the next 10 years, per year, US aid to Israel is $412 per Israeli [1]. And of course, that will go down with population increases. And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies. It is not used to pay for Israeli infrastructure or social services AFAIK beyond a separate chunk of money ~$…

"And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies"

This.

People are usually oblivious that it's another way of transferring money from the government to the military industrial complex, not just supporting the single democracy in the middle east.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#22

Post by vetleen » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:03 PM UTC

This doesn't quite capture the picture because Europe often have public subsidies as well. For instance the publicly owned "Innovation Norway" in Norway has a budget of NOK 1,5 billion, which translates to about US$60 per capita. Most of this is spent on subsidising entrepreneurial ventures.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#23

Post by JohnsonB » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:03 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #8

What the article misses is that London with roughly 1% of Europe's population get's 30-40% of the VC financing in Europe. So based on those figures London's VC per capita is in the region of $200-$300 (London has a similar population size to Israel).

I assume VC per capita is a used as a metric because it's a useful way of assessing how much economic value the whole country can extract from the startup scene, in the same way that GDP per capita is a more useful measurement than total GDP at assessing a country's quality of life. Israel may have a similar concentration of startup companies in a city (like Tel-Aviv) and the math would then work out to a higher per capita VC investment than London.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#24

Post by _delirium » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:09 PM UTC

vetleen wrote: post #22

This doesn't quite capture the picture because Europe often have public subsidies as well. For instance the publicly owned "Innovation Norway" in Norway has a budget of NOK 1,5 billion, which translates to about US$60 per capita. Most of this is spent on subsidising entrepreneurial ventures.

I definitely see this in indie games. Things like the Nordic Game Fund are really nice compared to what's available in the U.S., although Canada is also pretty generous with funding small videogame startups (especially Quebec, which has additional province-level funding). In the U.S., you can only really make it if you: 1) bootstrap; or 2) target social games or "gamification", which are the only things VCs care about. Companies more in the Playdead (Denmark) vein rarely get funding, although the U.S. does have quite a few bootstrapped success stories--- just looking at Santa Cruz, CA, alone, both Gaijin Games and Team Meat, makers of bit.trip and Super Meat Boy, respectively, are recently bootstrapped and successful.

For early-stage seed funding, there are also all sorts of target-agnostic entrepreneurship programs in Europe, which will kick $20k or something your way if you have anything approximating a reasonable business plan; makes it much easier to just strike out on your own without having to do consulting work to fund it. On the other hand, the fact that the U.S. has more than its share of successful bootstrapped indie-game companies suggests that either the culture or ecosystem is doing something positive there even with VCs being absent.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#25

Post by c2 » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:10 PM UTC

ajju wrote: post #11

pchristensen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the SF bay area 2.5% of the country's population (7.5M/300M) and ~50% of the VC, so 25x$72 ~= $1800/person.

Thanks, an order of magnitude larger per capita than Israel, as expected. I wasn't aware of the 50% number and too lazy to Google it!

I don't think that's surprising is it? Silicon Valley is known to be the best place for VC in the world. I'm sure if you draw arbitrary lines around the hottest investment communities in Israel the numbers would also be much more even.

That Israel as a country beats us in per capita investment is an interesting figure which we should all consider.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#26

Post by imjustatechguy » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

maayank wrote: post #21

tkahn6 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. At $30 billion over the next 10 years, per year, US aid to Israel is $412 per Israeli [1]. And of course, that will go down with population increases. And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies. It is not used to pay for Israeli infrastructure or social services AFAIK beyond a separate chunk of money ~$…

"And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies" This. People are usually oblivious that it's another way of transferring money from the government to the military industrial complex, not just supporting the single democracy in the middle east.

Very true.

Most people don't know but the most controversial weapons that Israel has used in recent years, such as the cluster bombs dropped in Southern Lebanon [1] and the white phosphorous used in the Gaza Strip [2][3] were both made by the US and given to Israel through the US Military Aid program.

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5299938.stm

[2] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/arti...

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#27

Post by endtime » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:16 PM UTC

ajju wrote: post #11

pchristensen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the SF bay area 2.5% of the country's population (7.5M/300M) and ~50% of the VC, so 25x$72 ~= $1800/person.

Thanks, an order of magnitude larger per capita than Israel, as expected. I wasn't aware of the 50% number and too lazy to Google it!

Well, what's the VC per capita for Haifa? Why do you think it's interesting to compare the area with the highest concentration of startups in the US to another entire country? Either compare country-to-country or highly concentrated startup area-to-highly concentrated startup area. I doubt there are more startups in Eilat than there are in Boise.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#28

Post by tkahn6 » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:19 PM UTC

maayank wrote: post #21

tkahn6 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. At $30 billion over the next 10 years, per year, US aid to Israel is $412 per Israeli [1]. And of course, that will go down with population increases. And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies. It is not used to pay for Israeli infrastructure or social services AFAIK beyond a separate chunk of money ~$…

"And another thing to note is that that money is in the form of military contracts with American companies" This. People are usually oblivious that it's another way of transferring money from the government to the military industrial complex, not just supporting the single democracy in the middle east.

It's slightly more complicated than that. No doubt it's a stimulus to defense contractors, but this money also comes with stipulations. For example, Israel is not allowed to sell certain military technologies (of its own invention) to countries like China. It also secures further defense trading with Israel which has about $18 billion allocated per year for defense spending (with $3 billion of that coming from the US). So Israel is encouraged to spend more money beyond that $3 billion on American defense tech and weapons.

Also we give about $1.5 billion to Egypt to spend on American weapons so it's definitely not exclusive to the only democracy in the mid east.

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#29

Post by ajju » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:22 PM UTC

c2 wrote: post #25

ajju wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, an order of magnitude larger per capita than Israel, as expected. I wasn't aware of the 50% number and too lazy to Google it!

I don't think that's surprising is it? Silicon Valley is known to be the best place for VC in the world. I'm sure if you draw arbitrary lines around the hottest investment communities in Israel the numbers would also be much more even. That Israel as a country beats us in per capita investment is an interesting figure which we should all consider.

It is not surprising, which is why I said "as expected".

I would like to see how the numbers compare for hot cities in Israel vs. the U.S., and I also think we should obviously try to raise the national number. I am not in the valley myself, so that would certainly help me!

Re: VC per capita, Europe: $7, U.S.: $72, Israel: $144.

#30

Post by ajju » Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 9:24 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #27

ajju wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, an order of magnitude larger per capita than Israel, as expected. I wasn't aware of the 50% number and too lazy to Google it!

Well, what's the VC per capita for Haifa? Why do you think it's interesting to compare the area with the highest concentration of startups in the US to another entire country? Either compare country-to-country or highly concentrated startup area-to-highly concentrated startup area. I doubt there are more startups in Eilat than there are in Boise.

What is the number for Haifa? I genuinely would like to know.

Separately, I am not trying to be a valley-partisan, just noting that the number for silicon valley is much higher than for the country of Israel, as you would expect. I don't even live anywhere near the valley.