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EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#21

Post by testplzignore »

ttesttom wrote: post #12
an_d_rew wrote: post #7

For those that want a bit of evidence and scientific background on this, Derek Lowe's writings are, as usual, an excellent source. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/16/wh... It is a scientifically and statistically rigorous look at the available data that takes into account how people probably feel about the whole issue.

I think this article is a bit more nuanced based on what they are seeing on the ground. Derek brings up good points about background rates, but papers over some things. It's a complex picture and the below article paints it well. Also scientists in Norway claim they found the mechanism that causes it. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/it-s-very-special-pi... https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professo…

> AstraZeneca supplies Europe with vaccine from several plants, however, and EMA could not say whether all of the batches involved came from the same facility.

Is there an answer to this yet? The batch that a particular person's dose came from is carefully documented (or at least should be - it is in the USA).

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#22

Post by _Microft »

Smithalicious wrote: post #19

If they keep vaccinating with this vaccine and it does turn out that the vaccine causes the deadly blood clots it will destroy the legitimacy of vaccines. "they pushed the vaccine despite knowing that it kills some people" is how it will be framed. Even though I agree that for health reasons continuing to use it is almost certainly correct, not considering the public opinion is madness and will cause massive issues.…

We have no innate sense for probabilites. To give people a bit of intuition about the risk, a good approach might be to try put the risk in relation with the risk that comes with activities and drugs that people already know and do.

Example, with made up numbers:

"You are 4 times as likely to suffer a blood clot from a 4 hour flight than from getting vaccinated with the AZ vaccine."

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#23

Post by rolph »

hef19898 wrote: post #18
rolph wrote: post #8

about 3/4 of theway thru the text i finally find some numbers >>What has AstraZeneca said? The company says there is no evidence of an increased risk of clotting due to the vaccine. It said it had received 37 reports of blood clots out of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the EU and UK as of 8 March. 37 reports out of 17 million vaccinations. this is aprox. 1 report out of 510 000 vaccinations. what is not sh…

According to some interviews and sources, the Sinus blood clots are more likely to happen with AZ. I haven't seen any numbers, especially accounting for age and demographic groups, so I cannot tell. That being said, every drug has side effects. A vaccine isn't any different.

i would like the opportunity to read these "some interviews and sources" do you have any citations to append to your qualitative comment?

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#24

Post by Varriount »

Smithalicious wrote: post #19

If they keep vaccinating with this vaccine and it does turn out that the vaccine causes the deadly blood clots it will destroy the legitimacy of vaccines. "they pushed the vaccine despite knowing that it kills some people" is how it will be framed. Even though I agree that for health reasons continuing to use it is almost certainly correct, not considering the public opinion is madness and will cause massive issues.…

And yet, if vaccinations don't continue, it's highly likely more people would die, that otherwise may have lived.

  Paul Hunter, an infectious disease expert at the University of East Anglia, noted in a statement that even if the risk of CVT is raised by the vaccine to five or more cases per million people vaccinated, the COVID-19 infection fatality rate for men in their mid-40s is 0.1%, or 1000 deaths per million infected.
So it's a tricky problem. I do believe you are correct though - even just evidence of missed side effects would be like meat and drink to anti-vaccination sentiments.

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#26

Post by libertine »

Smithalicious wrote: post #19

If they keep vaccinating with this vaccine and it does turn out that the vaccine causes the deadly blood clots it will destroy the legitimacy of vaccines. "they pushed the vaccine despite knowing that it kills some people" is how it will be framed. Even though I agree that for health reasons continuing to use it is almost certainly correct, not considering the public opinion is madness and will cause massive issues.…

I think they spoke too soon, either way, they said it should be brought to attention of people of the potential symptoms and what they should do in that event - something that the manufacturer itself hasn't even acknowledged yet. Here in Portugal when this was addressed to the public it was brought to people's awareness that skin bruises, bleeding, general pain for few days should be reported to the doctor.

Let's see what Norway and Germany will do, I think the eyes are more on them - since they are dealing with those cases. Also if more cases keep showing.

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#27

Post by frongpik »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #10
willmw101 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I pity the ones they go first and suffer from overzealous cheerleading of a particular vaccines efficacy Given the incident rate and the growing COVID swells in a few european countries (France and Italy especially), the slow vaccination progress, not helped by hesitance over AZ and surprising prevalence of vaccine hesitancy in general, you could just as well argue the opposite. Nations that are overcautious may…

Right. The WHO listed 'vaccine hesitancy' as one of the top global health threats, and that was in mid 2019, before the pandemic. [0] On the other hand, vaccine side-effects have never been a major health threat. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_hesitancy

Delayed side effects is a thing, especially due to interaction with other meds. Huge swaths of americans have hypertension and diabetes and take meds regularly.

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#28

Post by libertine »

Varriount wrote: post #24
Smithalicious wrote: post #19

If they keep vaccinating with this vaccine and it does turn out that the vaccine causes the deadly blood clots it will destroy the legitimacy of vaccines. "they pushed the vaccine despite knowing that it kills some people" is how it will be framed. Even though I agree that for health reasons continuing to use it is almost certainly correct, not considering the public opinion is madness and will cause massive issues.…

And yet, if vaccinations don't continue, it's highly likely more people would die, that otherwise may have lived. Paul Hunter, an infectious disease expert at the University of East Anglia, noted in a statement that even if the risk of CVT is raised by the vaccine to five or more cases per million people vaccinated, the COVID-19 infection fatality rate for men in their mid-40s is 0.1%, or 1000 deaths per million infe…

The problem is the perceived risk, for many people getting COVID is avoidable if they take precautions, while the scenario of willingly take a vaccine that can result in death is way more darker.

A lot of young people won't even find the "relief" they got from knowing COVID is more lethal on the elderly, since this seems to be happening on younger females.

It's not an easy problem to fix, and I see a lot of people refusing this until they get to the bottom of the reason, a safe treatment for these cases. I'd say this will probably be the end of the road for AZ vaccine in a lot of places.

Not to mention the pile of fuck-ups AZ did for months in a row, they painted themselves as unreliable and liars to the public.

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#29

Post by onetimemanytime »

libertine wrote: post #28
Varriount wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, if vaccinations don't continue, it's highly likely more people would die, that otherwise may have lived. Paul Hunter, an infectious disease expert at the University of East Anglia, noted in a statement that even if the risk of CVT is raised by the vaccine to five or more cases per million people vaccinated, the COVID-19 infection fatality rate for men in their mid-40s is 0.1%, or 1000 deaths per million infe…

The problem is the perceived risk, for many people getting COVID is avoidable if they take precautions, while the scenario of willingly take a vaccine that can result in death is way more darker. A lot of young people won't even find the "relief" they got from knowing COVID is more lethal on the elderly, since this seems to be happening on younger females. It's not an easy problem to fix, and I see a lot of people re…

Plus, what else might be hiding in the vaccine that we may find years from now?

Re: EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'

#30

Post by martin_bech »

Smithalicious wrote: post #19

If they keep vaccinating with this vaccine and it does turn out that the vaccine causes the deadly blood clots it will destroy the legitimacy of vaccines. "they pushed the vaccine despite knowing that it kills some people" is how it will be framed. Even though I agree that for health reasons continuing to use it is almost certainly correct, not considering the public opinion is madness and will cause massive issues.…

Covid kills about 100:1, hospiltalises 20:1. IF the vaccine causes clots, it does so in about 140.000:1.
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