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Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

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Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#21

Post by Cthulhu_ »

1-6 wrote: post #14
1-6 wrote: post #11

I worked on an old Honda Odyssey that I bought used from a friend for $100. It took at least $2000 in parts but I could find all the parts on RockAuto.com (The site is ugly but functional). Just like cars, in the long-run, I think bringing products to market which are repairable will help create trust between manufacturer and end-user. In fact, the resale value of an older item depends on the affordability of the rep…

Unfortunately, Tesla is starting to build their battery packs in-frame so it'll become harder to repair. https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack...

I'm kinda hoping that there will be legislation or standardization for battery packs. As it stands, when that battery pack is end-of-life, the whole car will be scrapped because it's not financially viable to have a new one installed.

But if it's standardized, if it's EOL the battery pack can be replaced with either a new, better battery (e.g. solid state) or a refurbished / secondhand battery. And the EOL battery pack handed in for refurbishment, which hopefully significantly reduces cost.

Then again, I'm reading that the average car is scrapped after about 14 years. Might be high-end Model S-es may live longer, but if we get more cheap EVs, refurbishing the battery won't be viable no matter how cheap they make it.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#22

Post by gcanyon »

the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

First: I can't imagine not finishing Zen -- it is among my top ten books.

Second: I agree, no one should be forced to be "powerless" about the hardware they own. But right to repair is exactly that: I don't want a phone with a detachable battery and upgradable memory -- that means the phone isn't waterproof and/or is much thicker and heavier. I don't want to force people to have the phone I prefer, but I also don't want the kind of phone right to repair would force me to have.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#23

Post by gcanyon »

JoshTko wrote: post #3

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

Exactly this. People who want phones like this should be able to have them, but not at the cost of me being forced to have one too.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#24

Post by bzzzt »

spamizbad wrote: post #15
JoshTko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple is justifiably terrified of a 3rd party battery, installed by someone with 5 minutes of training, causing a fire and making headlines.

Okay, then why is the camera serialized and not the battery (which, incidentally, you CAN replace on the iPhone 12)?

Just guessing:

- it's a component of the Face ID authentication scheme

- they don't want people using iPhones with sub-par camera's posting on social media

- they don't want iPhones with sub-par camera's on the second hand market

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#25

Post by minikites »

JoshTko wrote: post #10
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to repair is not about making devices more repairable but about enabling us to buy parts and service from third parties outside the manufacturers. Apple has begun serializing parts. You cannot take a camera from one iPhone 12 and put it into another iPhone 12 because Apple serialized the camera to the phone it shipped with. They are beyond reasonable with this kind of hostile approach to repair.

I think Apple is justifiably terrified of a 3rd party battery, installed by someone with 5 minutes of training, causing a fire and making headlines.

Do replacement cameras and screens cause fires too?

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#26

Post by bzzzt »

rover0 wrote: post #18
JoshTko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple is justifiably terrified of a 3rd party battery, installed by someone with 5 minutes of training, causing a fire and making headlines.

How is a 3rd party battery related to replacing an apple iphone camera with an apple iphone camera?

Because there are also off-brand "Apple iPhone camera's" (for instance QC failures from the factory, third shifts or clones)

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#27

Post by fortran77 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21
1-6 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Tesla is starting to build their battery packs in-frame so it'll become harder to repair. https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack...

I'm kinda hoping that there will be legislation or standardization for battery packs. As it stands, when that battery pack is end-of-life, the whole car will be scrapped because it's not financially viable to have a new one installed. But if it's standardized, if it's EOL the battery pack can be replaced with either a new, better battery (e.g. solid state) or a refurbished / secondhand battery. And the EOL battery pa…

According to many sources, for example this CNET article, cars are one of the best-recycled products around, with "86%" (according to this article) of the material in a car recycled to use again:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/recyclable-cars-what-part...

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#28

Post by ed25519FUUU »

1-6 wrote: post #14
1-6 wrote: post #11

I worked on an old Honda Odyssey that I bought used from a friend for $100. It took at least $2000 in parts but I could find all the parts on RockAuto.com (The site is ugly but functional). Just like cars, in the long-run, I think bringing products to market which are repairable will help create trust between manufacturer and end-user. In fact, the resale value of an older item depends on the affordability of the rep…

Unfortunately, Tesla is starting to build their battery packs in-frame so it'll become harder to repair. https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack...

A real shame since electric cars are extremely simple. There’s not a panoply of different parts that slowly wear out and need to be troubleshooted separately and replaced at different times. It’s basically the battery pack and brakes.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#29

Post by fartcannon »

gcanyon wrote: post #22
the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

First: I can't imagine not finishing Zen -- it is among my top ten books. Second: I agree, no one should be forced to be "powerless" about the hardware they own. But right to repair is exactly that: I don't want a phone with a detachable battery and upgradable memory -- that means the phone isn't waterproof and/or is much thicker and heavier. I don't want to force people to have the phone I prefer, but I also don't w…

I'll be you they find a way to keep the phones looking the way you want while still making them repairable. I'll bet you all that cant-be-done stuff is excuses and bullshit.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#30

Post by bzzzt »

minikites wrote: post #25
JoshTko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple is justifiably terrified of a 3rd party battery, installed by someone with 5 minutes of training, causing a fire and making headlines.

Do replacement cameras and screens cause fires too?

Worse, they cause unsatisfied customers who don't want their next phone to be an Apple.
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