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Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

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Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#23

Post by tokenadult »

At least this write-up

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-lighter-stronger-steel-....

based on a press release mentions a journal article (as does one of the write-ups linked in the reply by djcapelis).

A quick search on Google Scholar

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=bainite

didn't immediately turn up the new journal article, but shows that bainite has been the subject of prior literature on heat treatment of steel for a long time. What is unclear so far, based on any of the write-ups linked to from this thread, is what trade-offs in mechanical and thermal characteristics and price the variety of steel mentioned in the current press releases will have in comparison with the hundreds of existing specialized varieties of steel. What industry response there may be depends greatly on what steel characteristics particular users of steel are most interested in.

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#24

Post by killerswan »

eru wrote: post #19
jodoherty wrote: post #8

That brings up another question: How much will it cost and how can I buy some?

Why would you buy a lump of steel?

Metallurgists do this. I've held lumps of the steel used in power plants (which doesn't burn when the coal does), and even a pop can sized cylinder of Beryllium. :D

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#25

Post by srean »

In spite of our understanding of chemistry, metallurgy still has quite a few mysteries in store for us. Some of them go back thousands of years. For instance we still have not been able to come up with a convincing reproduction of Damascus steel, the prized material that middle eastern swords were built of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel. Another supposedly related and "lost" steel is wootz steel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel Perhaps a good term to describe the study of these materials would be forensic metallurgy. My closest brush with metallurgy was in a high-school chemistry text-book, which to be honest bored me to death. But at a different level it instills respect for the ingenuity and persistence of humans. Those methods are by no means simple and the bronze-age and iron-age men figured it out.

Among other things that make recreating these materials hard, is that in cooking them you not only need to get the ingredients right, but also get the sequence correct, sometimes to the minutest detail. Impurities in parts per million or the lack of can have significant effects in determining the properties of the material. Same goes for the process of making it.

We understand properties of individual components well enough but the physics that dictates the properties of alloys is different, difficult, non-smooth and very non-linear. Statistical physics have played a huge role in trying to model these behavior.

Another historical-metallurgical curiosity is the surprisingly corrosion resistant iron pillar in Delhi. It has been out there, in the open, facing the corroding elements of tropical weather for 25 centuries, but with little or no corrosion damage.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pillar_of_Delhi

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#26

Post by [deleted] »

srean wrote: post #25

In spite of our understanding of chemistry, metallurgy still has quite a few mysteries in store for us. Some of them go back thousands of years. For instance we still have not been able to come up with a convincing reproduction of Damascus steel, the prized material that middle eastern swords were built of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel . Another supposedly related and "lost" steel is wootz steel. http:/…

[deleted]

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#28

Post by nebaneba »

crocowhile wrote: post #4
guelo wrote: post #3

Wow amateur metallurgist sounds like a hardcore hobby.

People have the weirdest hobbies. Have a look at this guy: http://www.themysteryworld.com/2011/02/tatara-project-guy-ma... Making knives starting from the very scratch (that is, making their own steel to start with)

This looks like the original: http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/tamahagane/main.htm

Also has additional information on it.

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#29

Post by riledhel »

moultano wrote: post #27

Can we remove the "shames scientists" bit from the headline? This guy is a scientist by definition if he has any experimental validation, and I didn't see a citation for anyone being shamed.

Second this. Don't understand why a sensationalist headline should translate as is to HN.

Re: Detroit DIYer cooks up stronger, lighter steel, shames scientists

#30

Post by pedalpete »

djcapelis wrote: post #2

The linked article was pretty small, so I went and tried to get a bit more information: * http://www.bainitesteel.com/ - the company making the product * http://www.gizmag.com/stronger-steel-in-a-flash/18882/ - a longer and better writeup * http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/flash-bainite-is-strongest-... - another writeup Looks cool! Though not sure about the flamebait title from the original article. :)

The gizmag article points out a great potential in marketing of this steel too. I had assumed as I read it, that the process would be more energy intensive, but it is actually less, which could mean a reduction in at least comparable cost to current steel solutions.

'Cola also says his process is also environmentally friendly as it consumes less energy per kilogram of steel processed compared to traditional methods and uses water instead of oils or molten salt.'

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