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Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

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Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#21

Post by robotmay »

joecool1029 wrote: post #19
capableweb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an engineer and you know the implications of a "2-way sync" then yes. But most people using iPhone are not, so what happens when something is on/off has to be extremely clear and intuitive.

I'm not an engineer, but I've used computers often enough that I understand deleting synced folders deletes files in both locations (dropbox, onedrive, etc). > I'm resolving that for the future by swapping her to an Android phone where I can manage backups myself as I do for my own (a combination of Syncthing, ZFS, and off-site backups for me). So, rather than learn the implications of the setting and take the L in a…

Oh good lord the assumptions here are ridiculous.

First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services. I know what it is. What I'm complaining about, and you would understand if you read the words, is that the setting doesn't say "this way for backups, this way for two-way sync and oh btw we remove all message backups when you toggle this on".

Secondly your insinuation towards both myself and my girlfriend that this is a solution I forced upon her that she doesn't understand is insulting. She was extremely upset by the lost messages and perfectly happy to explore a different system where I could help her back them up in a way she trusts. And it's just plain sexist to assume she won't be able to manage them in this way.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#22

Post by robotmay »

pb7 wrote: post #6
capableweb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh but there is more, a lot more. I've mostly been a Android owner but some years ago I got an iPhone instead. The glaring UX issues everywhere are hard to ignore. I just started documenting everyday, so I can share it in the future. But there is definitely more than just one issue with Apples UX and UI.

Care to share even 1 or 2 of the most egregious off the top of your head? Edit: Thanks all. I have to disagree that "Apple's no better than anyone else when it comes to UX" -- I think they are better but also make a lot of annoying mistakes. UX is hard, doubly so when you have such popular devices that try to cater towards so many different groups (children, techies, common folks, older non-tech savvy, etc). No one m…

My biggest frustration since I wrote this article was that by swiping up from the bottom right corner of an iPad, the keyboard would move up to the middle of the screen and split itself in two. Turns out if you were slightly inside the screen when you start swiping it triggers a long-press popup menu for the keyboard.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#24

Post by joecool1029 »

robotmay wrote: post #21
joecool1029 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an engineer, but I've used computers often enough that I understand deleting synced folders deletes files in both locations (dropbox, onedrive, etc). > I'm resolving that for the future by swapping her to an Android phone where I can manage backups myself as I do for my own (a combination of Syncthing, ZFS, and off-site backups for me). So, rather than learn the implications of the setting and take the L in a…

Oh good lord the assumptions here are ridiculous. First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services. I know what it is. What I'm complaining about, and you would understand if you read the words, is that the setting doesn't say "this way for backups, this way for two-way sync and oh btw we remove all message backups when you toggle this on". Secondly your insinuation towards both myself and my…

>First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services.

Then you should at least know that this is HN and you're supposed to make this an incredible journey and post a link to your clever sync product.

> Secondly

lol! Please see my earlier advice regarding low quality submissions, it applies to comments too. But since I baited you out and have your full attention, the reason I said that is because text messages and photos are highly personal information that people generally don't like to lose control over.

> where I can manage

Your words, not mine. If you said you'd build a system she could manage, I wouldn't have said it.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#25

Post by robotmay »

happytoexplain wrote: post #23

Legitimate article, exaggerated premise. Across the board, UX at the OS GUI level is usable only by necessity and repetition. The bar couldn't be lower, and iDevices aren't anywhere near the bottom.

I tend to agree. I do still use an iPad, despite its faults, as I prefer it in a tablet form. I’m a Linux user and I forget how many awkward things I do naturally now that are utterly bewildering to new users.

I think Apple’s biggest problem is discoverability. Too many gestures, not enough words to explain what something does. Android, by comparison to iOS, is a horror show in many other ways, and suffers from “too much going on”-ness. There must be a midpoint between those states.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#26

Post by pb7 »

capableweb wrote: post #10
pb7 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share even 1 or 2 of the most egregious off the top of your head? Edit: Thanks all. I have to disagree that "Apple's no better than anyone else when it comes to UX" -- I think they are better but also make a lot of annoying mistakes. UX is hard, doubly so when you have such popular devices that try to cater towards so many different groups (children, techies, common folks, older non-tech savvy, etc). No one m…

Not the most egregious but three examples: If you're using CarPlay, there is a phone call and you pick up, CarPlay changes the entire screen to the phone call (which is just the profile pic of the person you're talking to), even if you're using Maps or anything else. Everything has a different way to be closed or go back to the previous screen. Sometimes you swipe up, sometimes to the left, sometimes there is a back…

>Everything has a different way to be closed or go back to the previous screen. Sometimes you swipe up, sometimes to the left, sometimes there is a back arrow in the top left, sometimes there is a X in the top right. When to do what is often not clear, and there is no universal "go back" action that seems to work either.

I can think of one extremely annoying exception that was definitely an oversight, but generally these is a HIG that is associated with each of these. Not everything makes sense to be in a left-to-right stack. The windows that pop up from the bottom are supposed to have a different purpose (usually have a "Close" button) vs the nav stack that have a back button. 3rd party apps do their own thing.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#27

Post by robotmay »

joecool1029 wrote: post #24
robotmay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh good lord the assumptions here are ridiculous. First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services. I know what it is. What I'm complaining about, and you would understand if you read the words, is that the setting doesn't say "this way for backups, this way for two-way sync and oh btw we remove all message backups when you toggle this on". Secondly your insinuation towards both myself and my…

>First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services. Then you should at least know that this is HN and you're supposed to make this an incredible journey and post a link to your clever sync product. > Secondly lol! Please see my earlier advice regarding low quality submissions, it applies to comments too. But since I baited you out and have your full attention, the reason I said that is because…

It's hardly baiting when I submitted the article myself and actually respond to comments.

My girlfriend isn't technical, and she trusts me more than she trusts big businesses, shockingly. Her messages are Signal backups so I couldn't read them even if I wanted to, and she happily shares her millions of photos of animals with me anyway. She's the emergency contact for my offsite backup service if anything should happen to me, and they'll ship her a drive with our data on it.

This is hardly a low quality submission but it's even more ridiculous to assume me a low quality person.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#28

Post by robotmay »

pb7 wrote: post #6
capableweb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh but there is more, a lot more. I've mostly been a Android owner but some years ago I got an iPhone instead. The glaring UX issues everywhere are hard to ignore. I just started documenting everyday, so I can share it in the future. But there is definitely more than just one issue with Apples UX and UI.

Care to share even 1 or 2 of the most egregious off the top of your head? Edit: Thanks all. I have to disagree that "Apple's no better than anyone else when it comes to UX" -- I think they are better but also make a lot of annoying mistakes. UX is hard, doubly so when you have such popular devices that try to cater towards so many different groups (children, techies, common folks, older non-tech savvy, etc). No one m…

Thank you for disagreeing in a reasonable manner.

Where I feel Apple fall short is in trying to take away “excess information”, where honestly they often succeed, they end up with some very confusing interfaces. And while this might make it faster to learn, it doesn’t necessarily mean people are learning the “right” things, i.e. what is actually going on. Although pretty much anyone using the term “cloud” is doing the same thing.

I still stand by the headline though, for my opinion. I just think they’re better at some things and worse at others. I find most current OS about as bad as each other in terms of UX.

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#29

Post by joecool1029 »

robotmay wrote: post #27
joecool1029 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>First off, I am an engineer, and I've built my own two way sync services. Then you should at least know that this is HN and you're supposed to make this an incredible journey and post a link to your clever sync product. > Secondly lol! Please see my earlier advice regarding low quality submissions, it applies to comments too. But since I baited you out and have your full attention, the reason I said that is because…

It's hardly baiting when I submitted the article myself and actually respond to comments. My girlfriend isn't technical, and she trusts me more than she trusts big businesses, shockingly. Her messages are Signal backups so I couldn't read them even if I wanted to, and she happily shares her millions of photos of animals with me anyway. She's the emergency contact for my offsite backup service if anything should happe…

I'll repeat (for the third time) my earlier advice. Don't feed trolls, just flag my comments and move on.

As for the rest you posted, I've only made the claim that you were very smart, that's it. If you want to project all this stuff about sexism and people quality, I don't know anything about that.

Thanks for the enjoyable conversation though, gave me a good chuckle. Cheers!

Re: Apple’s no better than anyone else when it comes to UX

#30

Post by zepto »

robotmay wrote: post #8
zepto wrote: post #2

Bullshit headline. The article is about just one UI issue. Not any kind of comparative analysis of UX.

But the headline doesn't say it's a comparative analysis of UX? It's a comparison of an example of current Apple UX with their prior reputation, if anything. Also, this isn't a forum for needlessly aggressive remarks.

> the headline doesn't say it's a comparative analysis of UX

It would need to be for the headline not to be bullshit.

As for the needlessly aggressive remarks. I agree.

This wasn’t one - it was simply a statement of fact.

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