Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 423 posts

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#21

Post by matthewmacleod »

wirrbel wrote: post #10
tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if the refugee crisis would have happened at all Pretty sure the main issue, the fact that people needed to leave their homes and countries, would still have happened.

It amazes me how people buy into the right-wing narrative about politicians having invited refugees to Europe, when in fact, the EU is trying hard to keep them from entering in the first place. What might have prevented the refugee crisis might have been if the middle-east region had not been destabilised in the previous decades. And part of that destabilisation is due to the US Republican party pushing for an invasi…

Drives me up the fucking wall. Spend years bombing the shit out of countries and selling arms to despots, then having the gall to complain when refugees from the situation you encouraged turn up on your doorstep.

You solve the “refugee crisis” by fostering peace and prosperity in countries that don’t have it, not by spreading lies about it.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#22

Post by ThePadawan »

aseerdbnarng wrote: post #16

“It is key for Switzerland to catch up with other countries when it comes digitalisation“ Why?

Because person hours are expensive (because food is expensive because person hours are expensive because socialized health care is expensive).

Every process that currently involves reams of paperwork (like the ~20 page tax declaration that is due this month - yikes) that can be done digitally instead saves the taxpayer or customer money.

And the Swiss do like their money.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#23

Post by michaelmrose »

emteycz wrote: post #15
eznzt wrote: post #3

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss--burka-ban--vote-too-clos... >A decade after another national vote that banned the building of minarets, Switzerland will introduce a clause in its constitution to outlaw face coverings, including the Islamic burka and niqab, in public spaces. That's very cool, the EU has a lot to learn regarding direct democracy--I wonder if the refugee crisis would have happened at all if people w…

Oh no, another great country destroyed by democracy. When will people learn that there are things that shouldn't be voted about... :-(

How do you decide the things that shouldn't be voted on without voting?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#25

Post by asadhaider »

thitcanh wrote: post #4

This sounds like the Italian digital ID: required by the government, managed by multiple companies. It’s called SPID. It’s usually free, but there’s also certified email (PEC) that costs from 5€ to 30€ per year. Also required by the government in some cases and also offered by a small number of companies. Does Estonia offer their digital IDs directly?

Estonia does, their identity card stuff is pretty amazing and I remember reading about it a few years ago thinking it was truly ahead of it's time [0].

Looks like anyone can become an e-resident and apply [1], I'm unsure if this extends to the e-identify cards also or if they're for Estonian nationals only. I remember previously that anyone could apply for one however you had to go to an Embassy to submit information and biometrics.

[0] https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/smart-id [1] https://e-resident.gov.ee/become-an-e-resident/

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#26

Post by Etheryte »

thitcanh wrote: post #4

This sounds like the Italian digital ID: required by the government, managed by multiple companies. It’s called SPID. It’s usually free, but there’s also certified email (PEC) that costs from 5€ to 30€ per year. Also required by the government in some cases and also offered by a small number of companies. Does Estonia offer their digital IDs directly?

Digital ID in Estonia is government-managed and comes for free for everyone with your physical ID. When you get your physical ID you also get the corresponding passwords to use the same ID online with a card reader etc. You can use all online services etc with the above without any extra fees. In addition to that, all telecom companies offer a cheap (usually free if you're on a recurring plan) tie in authentication with your phone where you can use your mobile to authenticate instead of a card reader.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#27

Post by bobthepanda »

ThePadawan wrote: post #22
aseerdbnarng wrote: post #16

“It is key for Switzerland to catch up with other countries when it comes digitalisation“ Why?

Because person hours are expensive (because food is expensive because person hours are expensive because socialized health care is expensive). Every process that currently involves reams of paperwork (like the ~20 page tax declaration that is due this month - yikes) that can be done digitally instead saves the taxpayer or customer money. And the Swiss do like their money.

Also, person-based systems break down when asked to scale suddenly, because it takes a while to hire and train more people. We already saw this with how quickly even contact tracing systems break down when infections go above a certain point. Depending on economic conditions, there also may not be people to hire; pre-COVID, there were public transport funds in Seattle being unused, because there was not enough drivers to spend the funds on.

Another example, comparing how digital COVID payments in South Korea were a lot simpler and faster than in paperwork-heavy Japan: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-20/in-virus-...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#28

Post by emteycz »

michaelmrose wrote: post #23
emteycz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, another great country destroyed by democracy. When will people learn that there are things that shouldn't be voted about... :-(

How do you decide the things that shouldn't be voted on without voting?

Why do you need voting to understand a person's clothing is not for you to decide? It was well understood before democracy crazed the minds of everyone - not even feudal lords thought they could do that, not even communists did.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#29

Post by lwkl »

ThePadawan wrote: post #22
aseerdbnarng wrote: post #16

“It is key for Switzerland to catch up with other countries when it comes digitalisation“ Why?

Because person hours are expensive (because food is expensive because person hours are expensive because socialized health care is expensive). Every process that currently involves reams of paperwork (like the ~20 page tax declaration that is due this month - yikes) that can be done digitally instead saves the taxpayer or customer money. And the Swiss do like their money.

Taxes? You fill in the form in on your computer and can file it digitally. And if you print it it‘s encoded in a format similar to QR codes.

Tax offices are fully digital since at least 10 years. If you file with paper it‘s scanned and destroyed. Your local tax office receives all the documents digitally. Of course this could vary by canton.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#30

Post by krastanov »

esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

It does not seem like such a terrible idea if it is government run to me. But it depends on having trust in the checks and balances implemented in your system of governance.
Post reply on HN